[Potomac-Greg]

Originally Posted by Drscope

Keeping that in mind, you just can’t beat the 10 or more people working EACH corner at an SCCA event. I know who I would like to be running with if I needed immediate help!

I'm sure they're good with NASA too. I've been impressed and amazed by the quality (and volume) of corner workers at SCCA events. I slid into the gravel outside Turn 3 in a torrential rain, and under a local yellow they pulled me out. If I had been working the track, I'd have let me sit there and watch the action.

[Patrick3000]

SCCA has a great DE (PDX) environment and I would not hesitate signing him up. I think they have three or four events at Summit on the calendar for 2014, go for it!

[racer]

A bit of history and where I'm coming from: Rob has been behind the wheel of something since he could walk, go karts, motorcycles, cars, you name it. He raced karts for a couple of years and did very well. When he turned 16 he started autocrossing and last year progressed very well and is not afraid to push a car to the limit of adhesion, keep his foot in it, and bring it back. He routinely beats me handily and has got in a car of an accomplished driver/instructor for the first time and beat the owners time. My point here is that the kid has some skills that need to be developed further. He eventually wants to club race at a minimum and would love to drive professionally. Unfortunately, his old man cannot fund such a request and school is a priority with us.

So.. why does he need more seat time? Sounds like he's a competitive spirit with perhaps some good skills already learned. If he's already raced Karts (arguably more dangerous than car racing) just throw him in the deeper end of the pool and see how he does. SCCA or NASA will be fine to just gather seat time.

Is his goal to "race" or to "de"? If its race, then why not just start doing that?

[TurboPooch]

Many thanks to those taking the time to give me opinions. Very helpful and insightful.

Originally Posted by racer

Is his goal to "race" or to "de"? If its race, then why not just start doing that?

I've thought of this. And being a semi-accomplished racer myself I remember clearly my first days of racing and just how inexperienced I was even with several years of DE to my credit. DE time made my transition to racing easier as far as car control but racing is a whole different ballgame. I have been on track with guys who's situational awareness is non existent and are dangerous to themselves and those around them. I don't want my kid to be that guy. Call me an overprotective mother hen but I want to progress at a pace that I am comfortable he is able to handle. Plus, if God forbid, something bad would happen and I felt for one second my mismanagement/over zealous assumptions of his talent were a contributing factor, I would have a tough time with that and so would the wife and mother. Coming from a teaching background, I realize all parents think their kid is the best. So do I. But I don't trust myself in making these decisions. Too much at stake. If instructors tell me he is capable and reaffirm my opinions, then so be it....comp school it is.

[Potomac-Greg]

Originally Posted by TurboPooch

Many thanks to those taking the time to give me opinions. Very helpful and insightful.



I've thought of this. And being a semi-accomplished racer myself I remember clearly my first days of racing and just how inexperienced I was even with several years of DE to my credit. DE time made my transition to racing easier as far as car control but racing is a whole different ballgame. I have been on track with guys who's situational awareness is non existent and are dangerous to themselves and those around them. I don't want my kid to be that guy. Call me an overprotective mother hen but I want to progress at a pace that I am comfortable he is able to handle. Plus, if God forbid, something bad would happen and I felt for one second my mismanagement/over zealous assumptions of his talent were a contributing factor, I would have a tough time with that and so would the wife and mother. Coming from a teaching background, I realize all parents think their kid is the best. So do I. But I don't trust myself in making these decisions. Too much at stake. If instructors tell me he is capable and reaffirm my opinions, then so be it....comp school it is.

Great points. Your son is lucky to have such a thoughtful dad. Biologically a 17 year old may be at his peak in terms of sensory performance and reflex, but at that age they often lack judgment and a healthy level of fear. Good luck in comp school. So is the ultimate goal PCA racing?

[HoodPin]

Steve,
I applaud you for what you're trying to do for your son. You are definitely trying to nudge him down the right path. Of course, there's only so much you can do; alot will be up to him. Just be sure he doesn't burn out in the process; as girls, college, work etc. enter his life, he may likely start pulling back a bit. I've been through this.....

I concur with all the suggestions thus far for NASA, SCCA and others. While some smaller race programs are certainly good, I do balk at the thought of reduced flagging staff. I think the notion of charging less by not committing to a full complement of staffers in each corner is not smart. A lot can happen during a race, and the quantity/quality of the flaggers plays a big part of that. I think this is an important consideration for someone early in their racing development.

I also like the idea of starting him out in a slow but capable car. A 944Cup is a ton of fun, and the fields can provide a lot of fun competition. But the overall speeds of these cars is low enough that real casualties to the driver are almost non-existant (though no racing is 100% risk free)

I agree its unfortunate that PCA restricts racing to 18 or over. IMHO, the PCA racing program is the most gentlemanly that I've participated in. Not without occasional issues, but feels less agressive and cutthroat than some other programs. The 13/13 Rule is a big help. But the good news, he'll be eligible in 1 year!

Also, FWIW, and please don't shoot me for suggesting this, another good training avenue is 24 Hour of LeMons. Yes, its a zoo on track. But....I'm very impressed at how well LeMons tries to enforce good behavior. Bad behavior (4 wheels off, contact, spinning, etc) is usually quickly addressed with a Black Flag. Repeated infractions yield increasingly bad and embarrasing penalties. In the end, after several years of LeMons racing, I've found I'm much more attuned to traffic around me, because of the broad range of cars & drivers that are out there. Again, for the most part, cars are slow enough to mitigate serious injury. And, because most LeMons cars are somewhat disposable, fear of damage is reduced, allowing a driver to develop skills without so much panic getting in the way. LeMons racing ultimately rewards those who learn to stay out trouble and drive with a clear, unemotional head.

[CanAm]

Originally Posted by Potomac-Greg

Great points. Your son is lucky to have such a thoughtful dad. Biologically a 17 year old may be at his peak in terms of sensory performance and reflex, but at that age they often lack judgment and a healthy level of fear. Good luck in comp school. So is the ultimate goal PCA racing?

I had a 17-yo student at Shen a few months ago. His first time on a track, prior experience was three autocrosses and a couple karting races. The day started very rough, with him wanting to be very aggressive out of the gate and not wanting to listen to me, which affected his learning and driving, and our safety. We had a serious 'talk'. The struggles didn't end there, but there were gradual improvements in both his listening and driving during the day. By the last session, he was driving the crap out of the car, easily on par with our PCAP white group in terms of pace, precision, and control, then he pitted in and proceeded to vomit while still in the car (and still wearing his rental helmet and my communicator). I would say he had perhaps the most 'natural talent' I've seen among ~40 students and will go far, likely becoming a competitive racer at some point, but he clearly lacks judgment and a healthy level of fear, and I wouldn't want to see him racing any time soon.

[Jose]

Another option is the BMW Club Racing which offers an excellent club race school. It's usually 2 full days of time split between the classroom and track exercises, and the best part is that you don't need a fully built race car to take part (nor does the car need to be a BMW). A properly tech'd street/DE car is just fine.
I thought the NASA one day comp school was intense and really did a great job of preparing a new racer, but the BMW 2 day school blows it away, IMO.
I've helped run a few of the BMW schools over the past year and the feedback from all the students has been very positive. They are usually run on a Thursday and Friday on a race weekend. I think the first one for 2014 in the Mid Atlantic area will be at VIR on April 10-11....is certain to be a great event!

[TurboPooch]

Ultimate goals differ slightly between him and me. His ultimate goal is a Rolex picked up in Daytona. Mine is to get him through engineering school with the racing thing as an offshoot. At NJMP we raced there as a support race for the GrandAm race and he got a chance to spend about 20 minutes talking with Leh Keen. He told Rob about his rise to where he is now (which was recently documented in one of the P-car mags) and Rob sees a similar path, albeit Leh had much better equipment. I'd like to see a path similar to Joe Foster or one of the many other engineers turned racers. I'd like to think a mix of mechanical knowledge/education plus raw talent would lead to a pretty well rounded racer.

Greg, your points about lack of judgement and fear are exactly my concerns. And maybe I overthink this but I want to use this upcoming year as a learning year and evaluation of strengths and weakness. If he shows promise I'll spend the money for a pro coach. Better to do it early in the process than to try and undo bad habits.

[vranko]

Originally Posted by Jose

Another option is the BMW Club Racing which offers an excellent club race school.

Sorry for the tangent but when is the next BMW school? I've heard great things about it but can't find any info on when it will be offered in the future.