[TurboPooch]

My 17 year old is now ready for the track and I'm struggling just a bit to decide on how I want his progression in the motorsports world to move forward. It's damn unfortunate that PCA requires DE participants to be 18 years old because I think it is one of the best run driver education programs out there. Looking to the collective wisdom of the dorki community for advice and opinions about DE programs available for my kid.

A bit of history and where I'm coming from: Rob has been behind the wheel of something since he could walk, go karts, motorcycles, cars, you name it. He raced karts for a couple of years and did very well. When he turned 16 he started autocrossing and last year progressed very well and is not afraid to push a car to the limit of adhesion, keep his foot in it, and bring it back. He routinely beats me handily and has got in a car of an accomplished driver/instructor for the first time and beat the owners time. My point here is that the kid has some skills that need to be developed further. He eventually wants to club race at a minimum and would love to drive professionally. Unfortunately, his old man cannot fund such a request and school is a priority with us.

My dilemma is to keep costs reasonable this year and get him some experience so that when he is PCA eligible, he can move up through the run groups at an appropriate pace. He has a fully prepped 944 race car that he has been and will be using for these endeavors. I'm just looking to get him some seat time with good instruction with these goals in mind. I do not want to put him in a comp school right away without seat time. That is a risk I'm not willing to take with a kid that wants to be competitive but doesn't have the seat time to know what to do when a bad situation unfolds. NASA and SCCA both have good programs and SCCA has a sweet deal right now with lower rates for those that attend PDX and comp schools. I had/have racing licenses with both groups as well as EMRA but have not experienced their respective DE environments. I would appreciate any feedback from those out there that instruct with both groups, or any others, that if you were in my situation, what would you do?

[Potomac-Greg]

If you're looking for a nice, progressive training regimen, you can't beat the NASA HPDE ladder system. (Yes, this is coming from an SCCA racer.) Lots of (HP)DE groups including SCCA affirmatively disclaim any connection between DE and racing. They don't want to even suggest that racing is a goal of DE.

Not so with NASA. They start in HPDE 1 and move up to HPDE 4, and the emphasis is on developing racing skills. And with NASA's classification/run group system, they can even run HPDE events during race weekends. It really demystifies the club racing process. With your son's background, he is probably already in the 3 or 4 range so he doesn't need the full ladder.

From there, you can just get whatever license is most convenient. For good or bad, the SCCA license process is relatively easy. You can get a "Novice" license after a two day school and be racing immediately. Kind of sink or swim.

[BlackTalon]

In addition to what Greg wrote, I believe NASA has more HPDE track days per season than SCCA does. But why not go for both to maximize the number of track days per season?

[John Clay]

Greg makes a good point about NASA with the track to racing. On the other had, maybe just don't overthink this. Check his calendar, see what group allows 17y/o's, and get him on track. Time to get make the "right" decision will be on a pro coach.

[CanAm]

Chin doesn't go to SP, but they have over 3 hrs/day seat time, two-day events, good QC of instructors, flexibility regarding ride-alongs, and well-run events overall. Not sure what their age minimum is.

[Fairfax 944]

My Daughters (now 19 and 20) have done about equal time between NASA and SCCA DEs, and I instruct DEs for both groups. I would rank the instructors and programs about the same.

A big difference is that NASA holds their DEs on the same weekends as the races. It's sometimes hard to get a place to park in the paddock with NASA. However, it's cool to watch the NASA races between the DE sessions. SCCA does their dedicated PDX weekends. They are not very crowded at all, and the paddock is relatively empty, as compared to NASA.

You won't go wrong doing either (or both).

[ausgeflippt951]

For your purposes, I would think the biggest differentiators will be what's available in your region. For example, SCCA is generally more evenly distributed across the whole country, though if course each area does tend to "specialize" in a certain car class. E.g. the mid Atlantic is great for spec miata, not so much formula cars.

NASA is great, assuming your region has a large presence. It tends to have high concentration regions and some other areas where participation is fairly weak.

[APKhaos]

Another vote for NASA, particularly given the local Mid Atlanitc chapter's approach to younger drivers in HPDE. They pay special attention to the younger drivers and selectively assign their better instructors to kids who show some talent. PM if you'd like to talk to NASA MA Director Chris Cobetto and I'll hook you up.

[Potomac-Greg]

Originally Posted by Fairfax 944

My Daughters (now 19 and 20) have done about equal time between NASA and SCCA DEs, and I instruct DEs for both groups. I would rank the instructors and programs about the same.

A big difference is that NASA holds their DEs on the same weekends as the races. It's sometimes hard to get a place to park in the paddock with NASA. However, it's cool to watch the NASA races between the DE sessions. SCCA does their dedicated PDX weekends. They are not very crowded at all, and the paddock is relatively empty, as compared to NASA.

You won't go wrong doing either (or both).

I suppose I lost sight of the fact that mixing HPDE with races reduces track time and makes paddock life more difficult. Honestly, I miss the track time of HPDEs. There are race weekends where I will spend less than 90 minutes on track -- total. It's nice to be able to sleep in on Sunday and roll into the paddock an hour before the race, but it's hard to develop without lots and lots of laps. NASA's merged run groups actually allow for more time on track for racers (at least it seems that way). SCCA is forced to segregate some very incompatible cars, creating lots of run groups, and less time on track.

[Drscope]

I did a lot of racing with EMRA and also had a few guys we put through their Time Trial program. It was a lot of track time for the money, and for the most part a rally nice group of people.

BUT!

I was always a little uncomfortable going down the chute at Summit and noticing there was nobody home at the flag station at 4. Other corners are normally manned by only one person.

Point is if this is your kid you really want them to get a little faster response time if they get in trouble. Keeping that in mind, you just can’t beat the 10 or more people working EACH corner at an SCCA event. I know who I would like to be running with if I needed immediate help!