[HoodPin]

Originally Posted by roundel

Damn. I had a student hit antifreeze entering t4 at Summit as I was trying to say "Slow down Anti-freeze!" I had JUST put 2 and 2 together from a little wiggle in 3, but there was not enough time to warn and him to react before we were spinning track right down the hill. I only mention this because the only hope of reducing antifreeze related wrecks is for everyone to LOOK for clues. It is hard to see, but frequently can be smelled. If you smell antifreeze, worry about it! Even if your car is air cooled, worry about the smell of antifreeze!

X2 Reflecting on this situation, and many comments about going to water only, it occurs to me that water only's main benefit is subsequent cleanup. If water is dumped, whether its got anti-freeze or not, it will still be slippery for a while. Maybe less so that AF mix, but still slippery till it evaporates. With AF, you have treat it like oil and use sta-dri to soak it up and sweep away. Just sayin' that water only does NOT mean you won't have possible issues.

[Chopper Dropper]

Water in smaller volumes, such as a bursthose type situation and at 200 or so Deg F will evaporate fairly quickly and is a lot less slippery than antifreeze mix. A lot of pro series require water only. Only problem I see apart from March and Nov/Dec temps is there may be a warranty issue with the car manufacturers, otherwise it should be a requirement.
Dirk

[VaSteve]

How is that enforcable for the avaerage dual use car DE'er? Folks would have to swap it out each time?

[roundel]

Originally Posted by Chopper Dropper

Water in smaller volumes, such as a bursthose type situation and at 200 or so Deg F will evaporate fairly quickly and is a lot less slippery than antifreeze mix. A lot of pro series require water only. Only problem I see apart from March and Nov/Dec temps is there may be a warranty issue with the car manufacturers, otherwise it should be a requirement.
Dirk

I think it needs to be remembered that we are not talking about race school or racing. DE is supposed to allow drivers of street cars to learn at a track. I think requiring students (and instructors) to flush their cooling systems with distilled water in order to partake is going to dwindle the number of participants. Just as expecting every car to have a full roll cage and safety seats and fire suppression system is great for a perfect world, in a club DE situation, it is not aligned with my understanding of the purpose of DE.

[BlackTalon]

Originally Posted by roundel

I think it needs to be remembered that we are not talking about race school or racing. DE is supposed to allow drivers of street cars to learn at a track. I think requiring students (and instructors) to flush their cooling systems with distilled water in order to partake is going to dwindle the number of participants. Just as expecting every car to have a full roll cage and safety seats and fire suppression system is great for a perfect world, in a club DE situation, it is not aligned with my understanding of the purpose of DE.

I'd be happy if we could just get Kevin 'Oiler' to run water

[Der ABT]

Condolences to family and friends that is terrible news, after hearing this and watchingthe old video of the viper that looses breaks

makes me think more about instructing and having a child due in 2 weeks. I think i will be a little louder and more controlling over that chatter box this year.

[Dr K]

Originally Posted by Der ABT

I think i will be a little louder and more controlling over that chatter box this year.

x2

[Vicegrip]

Loud < control.

[Dr K]

I actually had a non-P-car (and not the Subaru) student last year whose driving and car were faster and more stable than I expected for that model of car and for Blue run group. Frankly it frightened me, and I told him he needed to slow down, which he didn't. He had a 4-point harness setup that we of course didn't use, so we're in 3-point belts and going very fast. I spoke with the chief instructor, and at one point had him come in. He never went 2 off or spun or even had a controlled but significant slide, but I was still frightened, so I didn't want to bail, but at those speeds with 3-point belts I was not at all comfortable. Fortunately or unfortunately, he developed significant engine problems so I didn't have to make the decision, but next time I believe I would bail and ask the CIs to get him another instructor.

[BlackTalon]

Originally Posted by Dr K

I actually had a non-P-car (and not the Subaru) student last year whose driving and car were faster and more stable than I expected for that model of car and for Blue run group. Frankly it frightened me, and I told him he needed to slow down, which he didn't. He had a 4-point harness setup that we of course didn't use, so we're in 3-point belts and going very fast. I spoke with the chief instructor, and at one point had him come in. He never went 2 off or spun or even had a controlled but significant slide, but I was still frightened, so I didn't want to bail, but at those speeds with 3-point belts I was not at all comfortable. Fortunately or unfortunately, he developed significant engine problems so I didn't have to make the decision, but next time I believe I would bail and ask the CIs to get him another instructor.

That's the fun of tracking an '80s vintage 911 (or 944!) -- all of the new cars are a lot faster! Thankfully, the newer cars are usually more forgiving, as well. As instructors, our job is to read the car and the student, and we have to be careful about 'reining in' too much just because we are not used to the higher speeds. It's a delicate balance, requiring raising your own comfort level with riding at those speeds, and gauging the ability of both the car and student.

If they are blowing their braking and turn-in points, you definitely need to rein them in. And if they are dragracing down the straights, and then coasting down before reaching the braking zone, then they also need to have their straightaway speed reduced.