[BlackTalon]

Ugh. Avoid ROTC unless the scholorship money is badly needed. ROTC demands do not mesh well with engineering school demands. Most of the engineering students I knew who were in ROTC wound up over in the general arts & sciences category after a year or so. And the ones who were able to make it through generally had pretty low GPAs. Since they went into the service afterwards it probably did not matter much, as the private sector would likely focus on what engineering work they did while in the military.

Our newest engineer here at my office was in ROTC at Tech. He dropped out halfway through so he could get through engineering, and had to pay back the scholarship money from the first 2 years.

[B r i a n]

Originally Posted by Handlebar

We just found out that Ian got into Virginia Tech engineering, and that's his in-state first choice.

Now we'll see if he can score some scholarship $$$ or grants. Much relief around the house.

Congratulations!!!

[Scuba]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

Ugh. Avoid ROTC unless the scholorship money is badly needed. ROTC demands do not mesh well with engineering school demands. Most of the engineering students I knew who were in ROTC wound up over in the general arts & sciences category after a year or so. And the ones who were able to make it through generally had pretty low GPAs. Since they went into the service afterwards it probably did not matter much, as the private sector would likely focus on what engineering work they did while in the military.

Our newest engineer here at my office was in ROTC at Tech. He dropped out halfway through so he could get through engineering, and had to pay back the scholarship money from the first 2 years.

Alright, I'll just preface this with: *this IS Dorki after all* sooooo.......

BULL F-ING SHIT!!!!



My mediocre GPA in Mechanical Engineering at Purdue University had FAAAAARRRRRRRR more to do with drinking like a sailor (except, as a sailor before college, I hadn't even approached college-level drinking. And then embarrassed my sailors after college when they tried to challenge me in port). Also, there were the miserable failures at trying to get laid that also led to lots of sleeping in, and not paying attention in class that might have affected things.

In the end, it was ROTC that got me to focus and graduate. Specifically, it was my XO, a retiring F-18 pilot who put me in a proverbial headlock and got me to knuckle down and finish. He then gave me his wings.

Sidebar: I had Gene Cernan rub those wings for good luck during his book signing at the Astronaut Reunion during homecoming my senior year. You know how you can tell whether you're at a good engineering school? - they have astronaut reunions, and everyone in the world knows who they are...

Anyone who can't carry an engineering load AND ROTC is not someone you want working for you in your engineering firm - or defending your country for that matter.

Anyone who says that "ROTC demands do not mesh well with engineering school demands" knows NOTHING about our United States Military Officer Corps.
...and I suspect probably dropped out of an ROTC Unit, or spends time in their basement complaining to their Mom about how they were never accepted in the first place.

The entire DMV is JAM-PACKED with successful graduates of Engineering Programs while enrolled in an ROTC Unit, who then followed it with an outstanding career of service.

(and, since I'm not done)

You need to ask yourself two questions:
1) Would you rather hire someone who has only proven they can achieve academic success when all they've focused on is academics? Or would you rather hire someone that has demonstrated they can juggle demands more consistent with real world demands?

2) Do you want your son to turn into some "I want everything handed to me" whiny college douche? - because I guarantee you no one coming out of ROTC is getting absorbed into that hippie commune crap.

Ok, that was really 3 questions.

*and, I'm done.

[Scuba]

Originally Posted by Handlebar

We just found out that Ian got into Virginia Tech engineering, and that's his in-state first choice.

Now we'll see if he can score some scholarship $$$ or grants. Much relief around the house.

...and congratulations to you and Ian.

My real advice is, as someone on a full-tuition, books, and fees ROTC scholarship that is STILL paying off the room & board loans, seriously consider the full-ride options. (but, I really could've paid them off, instead of feeding the motorsports heroin dealer...)

Long ago I decided, if I ever had a son, my advice on undergraduate school selection would be:

Above a certain threshold, nobody cares WHERE you went to school - pick one with an SEC-like female student body, or one with "Ski Team" as an elective.

[BlackTalon]

Originally Posted by Scuba

Alright, I'll just preface this with: *this IS Dorki after all* sooooo.......

BULL F-ING SHIT!!!!

Okay.

Maybe things have changed a lot, or the experience at Purdue is not the same as at VT.

Aren't you still in the service though? Or did you get out and now work for the private sector that does government contracting?

[Scuba]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

Okay.

Maybe things have changed a lot, or the experience at Purdue is not the same as at VT.

Yes, I think they must be: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...ring-doctorate

The military rates engineering degrees highest in its recruitment priorities, precisely because the training in analytical skills that one gains are broadly applicable across many fields. Its very ill informed to suggest that ROTC would interfere with one's ability to successfully complete an engineering degree - the ROTC commitments will give (by design) long before the academic commitments.

I fall back on my initial suggestion that anyone who cannot juggle both is not well suited to a career in either.

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

Aren't you still in the service though? Or did you get out and now work for the private sector that does government contracting?

I am. What exactly is your implication with that?

[BlackTalon]

My implication is you may not have been exposed to the difficulties in finding a good engineering job in the private sector when one's grades aren't that good. When the economy is down, there is a lot of competition for limited jobs. When it is flying high, it isn't as much of an issue, but in my 29 years working I have been through several cycles of this. My views are largely those of an employer, as I've been on the hiring end of things for 25 years.

Your personal experience is one data point. And I provided my experience to Ken, which is not based on my career personally, but passing on what I saw while in school and have seen since then.

If one stays in the service long enough as an engineer, the difficulties associated with so-so grades will largely be overlooked in the private sector except in the really lean times when employers literally split hairs when deciding who to hire for a single position out of a stack of 50 resumes.

[Scuba]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

My implication is you may not have been exposed to the difficulties in finding a good engineering job in the private sector when one's grades aren't that good. When the economy is down, there is a lot of competition for limited jobs. When it is flying high, it isn't as much of an issue, but in my 29 years working I have been through several cycles of this. My views are largely those of an employer, as I've been on the hiring end of things for 25 years.

Your personal experience is one data point. And I provided my experience to Ken, which is not based on my career personally, but passing on what I saw while in school and have seen since then.

If one stays in the service long enough as an engineer, the difficulties associated with so-so grades will largely be overlooked in the private sector except in the really lean times when employers literally split hairs when deciding who to hire for a single position out of a stack of 50 resumes.

I'll give you that.

I'll also counter with the idea that part of the reason I've stayed in for the full 20 is that the pay is such that I've never been left wanting (lots of tax free time in uncomfortable places has certainly augmented that well - as evidenced by the fact that I can hob-nob with the PCA crowd). But a huge driver in the willingness to stick it out was watching my father (who holds a Master's degree in EE from JHU) deliver newspapers between chasing aerospace defense contracts around the country during the 90's recession...right as I graduated from the third high school I attended in 4 years. So, I can hum a few bars of the "the economy can be tough" tune, too - while spending a career sort of insulated from it, but at a much higher cost.

My experience is certainly a single data point - among thousands of other data points of engineering degree holders with military backgrounds currently gainfully employed in the DC area.

If the goal is purely first employment after completion of a four year engineering degree, then sure - focus on just grades. But I've learned life holds many more (vastly superior) opportunities than those offered behind doors guarded by a GPA gatekeeper. I'll take great pleasure in selectively applying that standard myself some day, where a high GPA with no other experience makes someone an untested quantity in life's real challenges in my view.

...and the "difficulties in finding a good engineering job in the private sector when one's grades aren't that good" at this point is the least significant challenge I have ever faced.

[BlackTalon]

Perfect!

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

Ugh. Avoid ROTC unless the scholorship money is badly needed. ROTC demands do not mesh well with engineering school demands. Most of the engineering students I knew who were in ROTC wound up over in the general arts & sciences category after a year or so. And the ones who were able to make it through generally had pretty low GPAs. Since they went into the service afterwards it probably did not matter much, as the private sector would likely focus on what engineering work they did while in the military.

Our newest engineer here at my office was in ROTC at Tech. He dropped out halfway through so he could get through engineering, and had to pay back the scholarship money from the first 2 years.

Can't speak to Army, but USAF ROTC was not that demanding. Most of the folks I knew in AFROTC were engineering students and had zero problems balancing ROTC requirements with their schoolwork. Many of them had extremely high GPAs and graduated with honors.

I had an AFROTC four-year scholarship many years ago. It was a great way to pay for school. It didn't impact my school work at all.

/USAF (RET)