[Trak Ratt]

Ok most know that PCA will limit the use of harnesses to their manufactured date + X years. Same with helmets and some types of seats. So the question is what to do with the out of date stuff? Obviously the seats can be used for trick bar or shop seats. Though your CFO might blanch at a couple year old $1K+ plastic bar stool. I’ve also seen pics of old harnesses being used for tow straps and tie downs. And Vicegrip has used his helmet to carry his kids in. But what else are they good for? Fell free to add others to the list if you know of any.
I know that other venues have less strict rules so you can always try and unload them there but I was curious about less mundane uses

[HoodPin]

FWIW....dated harnesses that are in otherwise good condition would be acceptable for autox duty.

Also, if anyone has any dated helmets that are in otherwise good condition, I would be happy to accept them as additions to our Autox Program "Loaner Helmet" inventory. Generally, we can accept good condition helmets that are no more than 1 Snell cycle beyond DE specs. The loaner helmets are greatly appreciated by autox newbies!

[racer]

Outside of PCA CR, I wasn't aware of a seat "out of date" rating... is this new?

[Trak Ratt]

Originally Posted by racer

Outside of PCA CR, I wasn't aware of a seat "out of date" rating... is this new?

My reference was CR but some of those cars could run DEs too. But even if they didn't the seat would still need replacing before the next CR.

[michael lang]

Well, I'm curious. Why is it not okay to have "outdated" harnesses in the car for DE but it is okay to have stock seatbelts that originally came with the car? Maybe I missed something in the translation but that seems to not make any sense.

[Trak Ratt]

Originally Posted by michael lang

Well, I'm curious. Why is it not okay to have "outdated" harnesses in the car for DE but it is okay to have stock seatbelts that originally came with the car? Maybe I missed something in the translation but that seems to not make any sense.

You did, it's in another thread. But if you want a real answer you need to ask PCAP direct.

[Vicegrip]

Unless something in PCA CR rules has changed seats and seat mounts don't clock out if you use a rules conforming seat back brace. Some harness makers will re-web for a much reduced fee over the cost of new.

I think the PCA harness rule is unwise as it still makes the tech inspector inspect and rule on the stock belts but removes the ability to OK a set of pristine added belts mounted in a garage queen. Driver spends $ replacing still good safety equipment when he she could have put it towards more stuff such as an improved seat or a HANS.

[HoodPin]

Originally Posted by Vicegrip

I think the PCA harness rule is unwise as it still makes the tech inspector inspect and rule on the stock belts but removes the ability to OK a set of pristine added belts mounted in a garage queen. Driver spends $ replacing still good safety equipment when he she could have put it towards more stuff such as an improved seat or a HANS.

Originally Posted by michael lang

Well, I'm curious. Why is it not okay to have "outdated" harnesses in the car for DE but it is okay to have stock seatbelts that originally came with the car? Maybe I missed something in the translation but that seems to not make any sense.

Vicegrip is a much better mechanic and scrutineer than I'll ever be, and his points are well taken. As I've read, the problem with racing belts is that they're designed to be worn tight. They're also designed to work based upon a certain amount of built-in stretch. Repeated loads under heavy braking (and much more so in an impact...) cause the belts to lose their stretch. The theory is that after much "abuse" the belts won't work properly. Hence the "Best Used By" dating. But, as Vicegrip's pointed out, many DE cars don't ever come close to reaching the "abuse" point, except of course for the handful of track junkies who are out every weekend! OEM seat belts are not worn tight, and don't get subjected to stretch as much; that's why they expect them to last so much longer. A simple inspection of pulling the OEM belt out of its roller will show a burn mark if the belt was ever subjected to a high-G impact. YMMV

[Trak Ratt]

BTW I replaced the 3 points in the SC last year. 25 years of use, lots of miles, rollining in and out of the spool... it was time.

[Vicegrip]

Originally Posted by AJ986S

Vicegrip is a much better mechanic and scrutineer than I'll ever be, and his points are well taken. As I've read, the problem with racing belts is that they're designed to be worn tight. They're also designed to work based upon a certain amount of built-in stretch. Repeated loads under heavy braking (and much more so in an impact...) cause the belts to lose their stretch. The theory is that after much "abuse" the belts won't work properly. Hence the "Best Used By" dating. But, as Vicegrip's pointed out, many DE cars don't ever come close to reaching the "abuse" point, except of course for the handful of track junkies who are out every weekend! OEM seat belts are not worn tight, and don't get subjected to stretch as much; that's why they expect them to last so much longer. A simple inspection of pulling the OEM belt out of its roller will show a burn mark if the belt was ever subjected to a high-G impact. YMMV

NO planed stretch. Webbing elongation requires far more energy than is seen in any driving that does not have an abrupt ending. Contrary to popular belief stretch is BAD. some belt materials stretch more than others too. There should be a stretch rating on belts. Stretch does not soften the G loads, it increases them. Conventional wisdom in the industry now is containment and reduction of movement, any movement. Your belts don't see working loads at all in normal use. The .9 to 1.3 G you might put on them has no impact on the material. An F1 driver might put 5 Gs on his belts now and again, still no wear as far as G loads. A good top notch hard front end hit will put 100+ Gs on your belts and some experts feel that a human well contained in a good system can survive a 120g pulse. To put the working load energy into perspective a full 120 G hit will likely pull your unrestrained appendages like arms off or at least violently dislocate them. The thinking behind belt obsolesce is UV degradation and user wear. Wear can be inspected for and in 99% of belts so can UV degradation. Don't use white belts. Belt manufactures have put discard dates on belts for many reasons and if you look into the machinations of the formulation you will find most are self serving. None take the use methods or locations into consideration. It is like saying you have to replace your tires every year regardless of miles or what you drove on. USAF has a 11 year service life on aircraft harnesses.