[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by TD in DC

The "limit" may well be higher for a mid-engined car (I am sure it is), but physics dictates that it will spin more rapidly when it finally does break loose than will a rear-engined car.

Huh, Spin more rapidly (break free easier) or spin faster (more 360s)??

[Toby]

Originally Posted by AJ986S

I believe the 944 and Box's are great in their own rite, but IMHO they are easier cars to learn to drive fast. More neutral & forgiving... they won't bite you quite like a 911 when you do goof.

Originally Posted by }{arlequin

edit: you may have to react quicker to catch the boxter rotation but that's just reflexes... still say it's easier to move hands quickly w/ a twitch to catch a twich than make a aircraft-carrier-u-turn type of a catch w/ a 911

Originally Posted by TD in DC

nice edit.

You have never driven a mid-engined car at the limit, have you? I am telling you that once you get to that point, it is very hard to catch. A rear-engined car is fairly predictable. It may come out sooner, but an experienced driver will know when to expect it to come around, and you can take steps to deal with it. If you can't catch a 911 when it starts to swing around, I can almost guarantee you that you will not be able to catch a mid-engined car when it swings around.

I tend to agree with Tony and }{. Boxsters are relatively easy to catch at the limit, since they react to counter-steering extremely well. There is certainly some anticipation and reflex involved, but they are at least "save-able".

In the many autocrosses I have participated, I rarely ever see a Boxster spinning.

This is not to say they are not driven hard! I spin my Miata at AX regularly, but have yet to do it with the Boxster.

[racer]

My mid-engine experience so far has been 914's. Hopefully soon I will add my boxster to the list. My rear engine experiences are 911SC and 911S based.. old school.

I perceived the 911 actually easier to drive at/approaching the limit because of the rear bias. Connected to the car, the 911 is very communicative of what it is doing. Only those not paying attention get caught out, imho.

The 914 was very forgiving as you approached the limit. Quick countersteers were all that were needed to keep it going straight whereas the 911 required greater efforts/measures to stay straight.

On the other hand, once spinning, the 914 would spin for much longer than the 911. The 911 "hammer" would spin out in a nice big arc. The 914 would sit and spin on itself.

It is small degrees of separation of this communication that the car gives the driver. Both can be overdriven and spun out. The 911 is easier to spin by ignoring its warnings. The 914 hid its warnings better and therefore felt like when it let go, it went "without warning", if you will.

Both are great fun and both need to be learned.

Suprisingly, I think TD is more right than wrong on this one TD, when are you getting a 914?

[Toby]

Wait... I thought owners of yellow Boxsters won't disagree with each other

[Rob in VA]

Originally Posted by Toby

Wait... I thought owners of yellow Boxsters won't disagree with each other

I think we'd be in agreement, if you drove your boxster harder at your next autox event. I was always spinning that sucka during autox, made some saves, and lost a lot too...

[TD in DC]

Originally Posted by racer

My mid-engine experience so far has been 914's. Hopefully soon I will add my boxster to the list. My rear engine experiences are 911SC and 911S based.. old school.

I perceived the 911 actually easier to drive at/approaching the limit because of the rear bias. Connected to the car, the 911 is very communicative of what it is doing. Only those not paying attention get caught out, imho.

The 914 was very forgiving as you approached the limit. Quick countersteers were all that were needed to keep it going straight whereas the 911 required greater efforts/measures to stay straight.

On the other hand, once spinning, the 914 would spin for much longer than the 911. The 911 "hammer" would spin out in a nice big arc. The 914 would sit and spin on itself.

It is small degrees of separation of this communication that the car gives the driver. Both can be overdriven and spun out. The 911 is easier to spin by ignoring its warnings. The 914 hid its warnings better and therefore felt like when it let go, it went "without warning", if you will.

Both are great fun and both need to be learned.

Suprisingly, I think TD is more right than wrong on this one TD, when are you getting a 914?

This is all I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to say that it was impossible to catch, but only that they spin faster when they do spin.

[TD in DC]

Originally Posted by Toby

I tend to agree with Tony and }{. Boxsters are relatively easy to catch at the limit, since they react to counter-steering extremely well. There is certainly some anticipation and reflex involved, but they are at least "save-able".

nowhere and at no time have I ever said that it is not save-able. What I said was that, although the limit is higher, when you do hit that limit and the car spins, it is more likely to spin faster than a rear-engined car would spin (i.e., the rate of yaw would increase at a more rapid rate).

Originally Posted by Toby

In the many autocrosses I have participated, I rarely ever see a Boxster spinning.

This is not to say they are not driven hard! I spin my Miata at AX regularly, but have yet to do it with the Boxster.

This is not inconsistent with anything I have said. I have said from the beginning that the limit is higher. That's why it is a venerable racing platform.

[howiemy]

First time Green 944 pilot...I liked the feedback of consistent improvement, although some rough edges, a dose of reality is important for me right now, IMO.
I am a minimal investment 944 jockey, so I'm good with the setup, and the proximity to NOVA./DC is great!

In the future, if I get more investment motivated in the car department, it might get frustrating...i.e. my left arm hurts from pass signing the air cooled brothern.

I am going back at least 4 X this year for seat time.

HM

[CrewChief]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

You get to 5th gear in a 997 on the back straight? Wow.

Keep in mind; the backstraight starts 2 corners before you actually get there.

[Vicegrip]

Damn John, don't give out the secrets so easy. I need the HP boys to wimp the two fast corners so I can take the 180 turn away at the other end.