[Vicegrip]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

I disagree that it mainly highlights driver skill over HP. It actually highlights a combination of driver skill, suspension setup, lightness and tires. Face it, some Porsche models handle better then others -- and that goes a long ways towards being 'faster' at Shenandoah. Also holds true for T5-8 at SP...

I know what you are saying but I will have to disagree. Handling is the same at the SC and it is on any other track. Fiziks is Physics and Sir Newton’s laws are in effect regardless. The SC and to a lesser extent T5 to T9 at Summit will expose drivers that hide behind the right pedal.

IMO the SC is only 90% Driver Skill. The other 10% is 5% driver skill and 5% driver skill. The SC is all about car placement and corner planning. It is chess on wheels as you have to look ahead of the corner at hand and at the track in 3D. You have to take aspects like where you plan to be at the corners exit and camber management into account. The opposite would be true of WG. A track made of single simple corners connected by straight parts. Checkers.


If you car is pigging and wallowing on the SC you might not be working the track camber to your advantage. If you don't work the track camber it will suck in any car as the faster you go or more the more Gs you try and carry make you slide off just like the skid pad. Getting the work done on camber is the key. The Car-O-sell is the only exception as some cars bottom and have to go through it gently.

[BlackTalon]

My Targa definately suffered from lack of adhesion, especially around that whole Hammer/ Hook area. I was still on street tires and the original suspension at that point, and all flavors of cars running RA1s would pull away there. I followed quite a few, and their lines/ car placement weren't really any different then mine.

And after the suspension replacement and switch to RA1s, I suddenly became a *much better driver* at SP. I moved my shift point between 1 and 2 much closer to T1 exit, I got faster in T4, and all through the back half of the track. And exiting T10, my upshift point moved up by at least half a second. It was amazing how much my driving skilz improved coincidentally with the suspension work and tire compound changes!

[TD in DC]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

TD -- it isn't always about you!

but it might be. or maybe not. we'reallouttogetyou!

TD in '07! El Presidente!

I was talking about 944s, not me

Remember, a non-stock 944 is harder to drive than a 911 at least the modern 911s . . . no verdict yet on 911s with torsion bars.

[BlackTalon]

Originally Posted by TD in DC

I was talking about 944s

Hey, everyone knows 944s are/ were the best handling p-cars after 914s, and up until Boxsters, right?

[Rob in VA]

Boxsters rule! yeah!

[Vicegrip]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

My Targa definately suffered from lack of adhesion, especially around that whole Hammer/ Hook area. I was still on street tires and the original suspension at that point, and all flavors of cars running RA1s would pull away there. I followed quite a few, and their lines/ car placement weren't really any different then mine.

And after the suspension replacement and switch to RA1s, I suddenly became a *much better driver* at SP. I moved my shift point between 1 and 2 much closer to T1 exit, I got faster in T4, and all through the back half of the track. And exiting T10, my upshift point moved up by at least half a second. It was amazing how much my driving skilz improved coincidentally with the suspension work and tire compound changes!

Your skilz did not change one bit. Take 2 drivers and the same car, one Green and one Red and see if it is the tires. The SC did not make your car a pig it was the same pig all along.

[}{arlequin]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

we'reallouttogetyou!

i like this.

btw,
the most elusive corner for me at sc happens to be the one leading onto the bridge straight.
i seem to either bog down or slide out too much out of it ...fun nonetheless

[HoodPin]

I'm still learning about this p-car stuff. And I only have experience behind the wheel of 944's and Boxsters. I believe the 944 and Box's are great in their own rite, but IMHO they are easier cars to learn to drive fast. More neutral & forgiving. Thought I've not had the pleasure of driving a 911, the rear engine'd engineering seems to make it potentially more capable at speed, though requiring more effort and skill. Seems to me the 911 is driven to its fullest with the right foot. 944 & Box's don't rotate quite the same. But, OTOH, they won't bite you quite like a 911 when you do goof.

[}{arlequin]

Originally Posted by AJ986S

OTOH, they won't bite you quite like a 911 when you do goof.

OTOH they only bite tee-dee 'cause they're eeevil. or his droving is eeevil... i forget

[TD in DC]

Originally Posted by AJ986S

But, OTOH, they won't bite you quite like a 911 when you do goof.

Sure they will . . . they just tend to bite you in a different way.

Rear-engined cars may swing out earlier, but an experienced driver can use this to his or her advantage, and the swing is at a comparatively slower rate than the way in which a mid-engined car spins once you have exceeded its limit. Boxsters spin like a top when they let go, and it can be difficult for even great drivers to catch them once you get to that point.