[William Miller]

I hope Vu's lurking!

Part of my restoration is to fix all the screwed up wiring from previous alarm and radio installers hack jobs.

This weekend I got into the thick of things because I was beginning to remove all the rubber glue and goo arround the doors and left from removing the carpet. (This job turned out to be a bigger pain than I expected.) Nothing seems to work well so far. When I get done I plan on repainting the floor and tunnel area and parts that carpet doesn't cover well.

Anyway, all the crappy wiring was in the way of cleaning up the goo so I started to remove it all.
What I found:
I probably removed 5 lbs of unneccesary wiring as it seems everything was done the easy way with no regard to attemps at taking the shortest routs ect.

The alarm (Viper) is intended to break the starter circuit so you can't start the car. They hacked into a yellow wire about an inch from the ignition switch. First this is dumb because that's the first place a theif would look, they could simply remove the relay and jump 2 connectors on the relay connector. Second, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure that would prevent them from push starting the car. Anyway I removed the relay from that location and cleaned up the wires and put shrink tubing on it.

I found the trigger points hacked into such as the door and front lid contact wires. Again a lot more wire was run than necessary.

What amazes me is that the car originally came with a factory "antitheft" system. I found a wiring diagram for it in Bently's and studied it for a while and found that all but 2-3 connections for the new viper alarm can be made right at the connector for the factory alarm control unit.
In fact the control unit had already been removed and the connector already had some jumpers in it. (This may have been from a previous alarm that the PO had replaced.)

I plan to post the wiring diagram on the board for referance.

I found a simular mess with the radio wiring and am working thru that as I plan to rewire (I'm about 1/2 way done) and upgrade the system somewhat. My only real issue with the current set up is the lack of power to push the speakers and get any low notes to speak of.

I have some questions and am seaking some experienced advice:
First some details:
I believe the PO did purchase some pretty good equiptmet (at the time he bought it.)

Alarm system: Viper 500 ESP by Dedicated Electronics Inc. (I was able to down load the installation manual and it was 1999 copyright so I don't think the alarm system is ancient.)

Radio and 12 Dics CD changer: Eclipse ( I don't have details with me, but it is digital and does have pre-amp outputs for front and back. It works pretty well.)

Old Amps: Fogettaboutit One pair was driven off the radio itself and the second off a 20-30 watt alpine amp.

New/used amps:
Amp 1: Pioneer GM-X572 400W (75WX2 @ 4 ohms or 200WX1 @ 4 ohms)
Amp 2: Rockford Fosgate RFPU?? 360aII (90Wx2 @ 4 ohms)

Speakers: xisting
Front: Rockford Fosgate 6 1/2 2way in doors rated 100 watts
Rear: Boston Acustics (This is rectangular box unit with a 4" and a tweeter.) I believe these are also rated at 100 watts.

I plan to wire up this system and see what happens. Again the biggest problem before was the lack of power to push the drivers. I'm not looking for ground pounding base (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) Just not my style. I might later add a 8" woofer incorporated into the console like what VU did.

Radio questions: I'm planning to mount the amps in the smugglers box now that the A/C is bye-bye. There is the opening at the bottom behind the passangers foot board and an opening at the top of the smugglers box where the Cold air duct was mounted. I'm thinking about bolting a computer fan at the top duct opening. This would suck air into the lower opening, across the heat sinks on the Amps and out the top. I think this will work well. Problem is that the smuglers box has openings at the bottom where the steering rack connects to the shaft. (I need to seal these up.
First question: What is the black goop they used to seal up these kinds of holes. It needs to remain flexible. Where do I get it. (I'll need this for a lot of stuff for my project.)

I ran a 10 Gauge wire from the battery to the smugglers box to power the amps. In the box this is split into 2 12 of 14 gauge wires that will go to each amp. I'm pretty sure the wire is heavy enough, but I don't know what size fuses. (I have 2 in line fuse holders that use the blade type fuses) Luckily there is a ground point with a stud and nut already inside the Smugglers box. I'll probably go overkill on the ground and use 12 Gauge wire. (I already have plenty)
Question 2: What size fuses for the amps?

Last is speaker wire. What's the hype with the expensive monster cable?
I used some once and it appeared to be maybe 14 gauge wire with really thick rubber covering it. What does that do for me that other wire will not?
Last I checked it was probably $25 for a 50' roll.
The original speaker wire is probably 16 gauge but has all the grommets and covering in the right place. (especially for the door jamb area.)

Question 3: What size speaker wire is really needed for this equiptment in a car where the wire runs are so short? What and where do I get the hose type covering that I need for the door jamb? (Do they sell long heat shrink tubing somewhere?)

Last radio question is where to mount the CD changer? It was previously in the trunk. The PO had it mounted to the top of the smugglers box in a position wher you couldn't get to anything without unscrewing it. I relocated it to the side sort of in a verticle position attached to the side of the strut tower. I put it on rubber feet, but I often has a skipping problem.

I think it will fit under the passangers seat bacause my euro SC does not have an lambda computer there. One long term concern is that I might replace the seats at some point and I don't think the clearance will be as much. Anybody done this? Will this position be less prone to skipping?


Alarm questions:
The Viper has a door unlock/lock feature. I don't have the connector that goes into the unit. Can I get one somewhere? How about the lock actuators? I have one that I picked up somewhere, But I'm not sure they are all the same. It's not much work to install them at this time but are they worth it? Are they reliable?

In regards to the starter kill relay: The original system disabled the fuel pump in the same manner as the contact on the air sensor and Rev limiter on those cars that had them. (It simply shorts the coil side of the fuel pump relay so the contacts open) Is this a better option than killing the starter/ignition? If I leave my car somewhere I suspect a problem I remove the fuel pump relay anyway.

The Viper has a feature to make the parking lights blink. This is a white wire (selectable flash output) that goes to two wires on the fues block via some little (in line) electrical device that I think looks like a resistor. (Is this to allow power from the white wire to only flow in one direction? Is it called a diode?)

The viper has many other inputs and outputs. I'm only using about 1/2 of it's capibilities what am I missing?


On the original alarm system there is something that I don't know what is for. There is a blue wire that comes from the Alternator. I believe it normally (without the alarm system) gets connected to the battery charge indicator light on the tachometer. This wire is extended to the alarm connector and then back to the battery light with a different color wire.
What's the blue wire do and what do you think it's function was with the original alarm system. Does it have a use in this current system? Currently the two terminals are jumped together. If it has no value I could just hook the blue wire up to the battery light on the tach and eliminate the loop?

Last, I'm planning on mounting the viper siren where the original alarm horn was located next to the fuel pump. (The wires are already there.)
Any suggestions for that?



Power antenna: this has 4 wires: Antenna wire, red, green, black.
I assume the red is always hot, black ground, green trigger from radio.
For some reason the red was connected to the switched ignition power same as the radio. (This works on Acc, run, and start)
Which way should I hook it up (This is a "hershman?" antenna)

I know this is a lot, but hopefully it will have some use for others. It seems that most people do end up tinkering with at least the sound system.

Any help appreciated. ven if you can only answer one question.
Thanks!

[Mackpipes]

Could you elaborate?

[William Miller]

I could

[87turbolook911]

I'll try to address all of your concerns...

First....start with a new alarm brain. DEI is good but the new DEI/Viper alarms that have come out in the recent years are even more reliable and have greater range and reliability than past versions. They retail about $150....it's worth starting with fresh equipment and have the support from the mfg or dealer in case you run into problems. They also have a lot of neat features that older alarms did not have.

Next....good clean sound requires decent power. You'll need at least 50w x2 (be sure it's rms power and not peak power)for the front speakers. The Rockford could be used here.

Go with 6.5 inch separates in the doors. I never put to much concentration on the rear unless you're running more than 50 x 2 up front. At 90 x 2 you might want to use the Pioneer for this duty. I would replace the rear speakers to something that is clean and efficient. Probably a simple two way co-axial. The speakers you have are decent so you can reuse them for now.

Personally I'd look into getting one 4 channel amp to do the duties of the above two amps. Then use one of the two above for a sub upgrade. With a cab you really need a woofer/sub to help out with the lower end of the music spectrum. Not ground pounding base, but clean punchy bottom end.

Might want to rethink the mounting of the amps in the smugglers box. Heat and moisture is an amplifiers enemy....it'll cause it to distort the sound and may ultimately end up rusting/ failing. Most of the time you can get an amp under the passenger seat.

With the kind of power you have I would run at least a ten guage to each amp. Preferably a 4 guage to amp location then split into a 8 guage distribution block. Each amp should require about a 20-30 fuse at the battery.

For your purposes any 14 guage speaker wire will do. The covering is just to increase it's durability in the auto environment and believe it or not some outer coverings are easier to slide and are more flexible under carpets etc. Some even strip better than others. Installers love good quality wire. Makes life much easier

We have shrink tube and cable covering of all sizes at the shop.

Your CD changer may have a vertical mounting switch on it....if not, try mounting it at rear of the trunk near the base of the windshield. Might be getting too much vibration at the shock tower. Otherwise get a headunit with MP3 player and leave all your CD's at home

For liability and safety we only disable the starter. Typically further down the circuit....not next to the key switch. But it's your call on that.

Be sure to use a relay to trigger your lights. The white wire will trigger your relay.

You also have the ability to have dome light turn on when disarm, auto lock once car starts moving, windows/up and down, top up and down, page you when the alarm is going of....etc.....etc....

All of the above will require many more relays and modules.

As for the antenna I don't remember...I'd have to probe the wires.

I think I covered most of your questions......if not just give me a ring...you should have my number.

Good luck!

[William Miller]

Thanks for all your help. I will probably do much of what you said now and leave some for upgrades later. I want to see what the amps I have now will do before spending another $200+. I'll send you some other details in a PM.
Thanks for your help!

[William Miller]

VU, I think I'm ready for the new alarm.
It looks like the shop that painted my car got the old brain wet while wet sanding the area in front of the windsheild.

Can you hook me up?
I saw a syetem on Crutchfield's web site that had the door lock/unlock relays and parking light relays built into it, or as part of a seperate block.

This would certainly make it easier to install as you suggested.
Where's the store anyway?

[87turbolook911]

DSI Electronics
9855 Washington Blvd, Suite E
Laurel, MD 20723
301-490-4197

Ask for Dave or Levi

Let me know when you're going to go up. I'll try to be there.

[William Miller]

Thanks!