[gregor]

Hey guys- (yeah, and maybe a few gals..)
I'm contemplating getting the IMS bearing redone with the L+N Engineering kit on my 2001 996 w/Tiptronic tranny and 25,000 miles. I've spoken to a couple of (somewhat) local shops, and they all seem to want to go nuts and replace everything on the engine "while it's out". So, a doable $2500 repair somehow morphs into a 6-7K repair, and has me questioning whether I even want to keep the car. I understand the logic of doing ancillary work and taking "preventative" steps, but....give me a freakin' break.
Given that the IMS bearing failure is truly catastrophic, it does not seem be as common an occurrence with the Tiptronics- maybe it shifts a little smoother than someone hamfisting the manual gearbox around, or maybe there just so many fewer automatics versus manuals on the road. I'm not going to risk the farm on that, and do intend to get that booger replaced fairly soon. I just have to figure out how big a job I want this to be.
And YOU-Porsche-thanks for the piss poor engineering on this IMS bearing, and taking 10 years to fix the problem. Nothing like superior Porsche engineering, eh Wot? No wonder they lost the class action suit.
Anyway, I'm open to suggestions/opinions from wiser folks than me.

So, any thoughts?

thanks in advance,
gregor

[BlackTalon]

So to be clear, you have been quoted $2,500 just for the drop/ bearing install/ reinstallation? Heck, if that is all then just go for that, as it is typically ~$2.5k each time the motor needs to be dropped/ reinstalled before even thinking about doing any work to it...

Now if the real quote is closer to, say, $4k, then that gets you thinking more about WYAIT....

[Mark Hubley]

If you had ten of these cars and replaced the IMS bearings plus "while you're in there" stuff to the tune of $5,000 each, then you're out $50K. If two of the cars had catastrophic IMS failures over your time of ownership, then you would have lost money by taking preventive action. Three or more failures, and you've come out ahead.

From what I've seen of the numbers, the statistics don't support spending $5K, and $2,500 is questionable. On the other hand, if you're one of the unlucky ones who experiences a failure, then you'll wish you spent the $5K (or $6K or $7K) on the IMS replacement.

If you can't enjoy the car the way it is, and you'll obsess every time you drive the car that it's going to implode, then I suggest you do the fix or sell the car.

I had a '99 Boxster for ten years, and I drove it, autocrossed it, took it on the track a few times, and loved every minute of it. All on the original IMSB. The car has about 60K miles and is still running strong today (someone else has it now). I didn't lose any sleep over IMSB worries.

What is involved in the "while it's out" work that they want to add into the mix? You don't have a clutch, so that's not in the mix. Air-oil separator? Give us some of those details, and you might get some additional advice. How long have you had the car??? Any other relevant service history info?

If I had a 996 with 25K miles on it, I'd probably get an oil analysis and see what that says, make sure my fluids are fresh, and drive the car.

[racer]

What specifically is the "WYIT" stuff they are proposing?

[gregor]

Originally Posted by racer

What specifically is the "WYIT" stuff they are proposing?

Partial quote from one shop:

rear main seal (flywheel seal in Porsche speak)
air/oil separator (can only be done with the trans/engine out and the coolant expansion tank.
It can also be a good time to do some other service items like replace the
water pump,
spark plugs,
ignition coil packs
drive belt.

That's about the list.

gregor

[racer]

There could be some merit to addressing these components if they are original to the car (ie, 15 years old). Or you could just do the IMS/RMS and address the other items if/when they fail or fall under a maintenance cycle to do so.

It would seem your car doesn't accumulate mileage like the manual would suggest, so maybe consider replacement of certain items on a time interval.

for example, its recommended that 944's replace their Belts and waterpump every 5 years or so (less if tracked frequently).. although I believe the factory manual only recommends replacement every 45k miles. Well.. my 944 is almost 30years old but has barely 50K miles. That means only 1 change in 30 years? sounds risky.

Rubber belts don't always last forever and when they fail, the results often mean pistons and valves meeting.

[Patrick3000]

Originally Posted by gregor

Partial quote from one shop:

rear main seal (flywheel seal in Porsche speak)
air/oil separator (can only be done with the trans/engine out and the coolant expansion tank.
It can also be a good time to do some other service items like replace the
water pump,
spark plugs,
ignition coil packs
drive belt.

That's about the list.

gregor

If you enjoy the car spend 6-7 k get the stuff done, drive the piss out of it.

[matt de maria]

While it is out, good time to do RMS. While it is out, extremely good time to do AOS. Doing an AOS in this car in chassis is about 2 days of HATEFUL work.
Plugs and coils can be deferred. These are relatively external.
Same with water pump and t-stat- relatively external.
Porsche never 'fixed' the IMS problem. On some of the pre 05 engines during their rebuild they updated to the 05 to 08 bearing. I have seen them (the 05 to 08 bearing) fail. The mileage for these varied from 9K to 60K.
I have seen 2 engines with the L&N bearing fail within a few thousand and to be fair I did not see the condition of the oil or engine when they were installed.
In the last 18 months L&N has reduced their warranty on their IMS bearing to me to 30 days. Apparently there is a new design plain bearing substitute that Raby has made to replace his IMS bearing idea. No feedback on reliability yet.
It is curious to note when weidiking (sp?) was in power Porsche charged 9K for a complete engine (with all accessories, exhaust with new cats and filled with oil). When he was deposed, Porsche increased their prices to 18K for about a year. Then they killed the program. I am told the new program is 20K for a longblock but as of a few weeks ago, none are in the pipeline.
Now R&N enterprises (I assume Raby and Navarro) have come up with a rebuilt exchange program for these engines. My salesman tells me it is approximately 17K for an engine (I assume a longblock) with an additional 10K deposit for a core. Raby inspects the engine that you have sent him as a core and prices up that which has failed in your engine and deducts that money from the 10K deposit. So to me it looks like you are paying him parts cost out of the 10K and are paying him 17K labor to rebuild the long block.
And reading their prospectus, "that which is in the factory specs does not get replaced"
In any case, these prices will total most early and mid year 996/7's.
I know of a Porcshe shop in Richmond that tried to do a favor for his customer and sell his low mileage blown motor 997 to a junkyardf. The junkyard would only give him 1500 for the car. The shop owner asked why so little?. The junk yard replied we have too many of them.

[cmartin]

Great info as usual Matt, thanks for the insight.

[Vicegrip]

LS-(pick a number between 1 and 9)