[Der ABT]

Well since we have an event coming up soon, i thought i would post this vid and leave it up for discussion.
THIS IS NOT MEANT TO CALL ANYONE OUT OR SINGLE OUT ANY DRIVER.

This video is full of how it should not work in my opinion, Open passing is meant to help everyone have a better run. Passing in corners/straights/anywhere a faster car has caught up to a slower car........
there are several issues i could point out seen in this video but ill leave that out as not to anger anyone
really i just hope people see this the way i do and start working on corner passing.
the last little bit of the video shows how a pass in the middle of turn 3 can see both cars loosing very little speed/time. also turn 9 and 6.

Im not saying im perfect, and maybe im just more comfortable then some and passing on any point in the track but I am hoping this can be used to improve things in black.

This is a couple red drivers divebombing black to see how passing goes, as you can tell there is more passing in straights, It was said in the instructor meetin in the morning where if your not getting a passing signal and there is another car behind try letting them in front to show a now set of headlights to the car not giving the signal.

again not trying to start anything but i think it needs to be shown.

without further digging a hole for myself, if i offend someone please its not meant personally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCV_m2rScV4&hd=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCV_m2rScV4&hd=1

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by Der ABT

without further digging a hole for myself, if i offend someone please its not meant personally.

lol...

[Chopper Dropper]

Thanks for posting that Evan, you have not dug a hole for yourself. I am allowed to offend freely and will at a suitable moment!!
Dirk

[BlackTalon]

1. The main 'conductors' are not Dorkis. And they will be in Black forever and ever. Just try getting by them in a full-weight '87 Targa

2. That Cayman smoked your ass!

[FTS]

I think that if we cannot criticize ourselves and cordially one another, how would we know what we are doing is right or wrong. I always hope that everyone else is open to such criticism as I am, but I know it is not always the case. I do sincerely hope that if I am doing anything wrong, not so inline with the etiquette, or can do something better at least the dorkis will come an warn me without fearing to offend me, before Dirk comes to talk to me

Btw, Mike Levitas was driving the Cayman testing the suspension for Brian.

[Alan Herod]

Thank you for posting the video. Bob and I were not actually out trying to harass black, we had been out with students in White and went out together in Black. Afterward we discussed the passing jam issues. It seems the Boxster and the 911 spent several sessions together. After that it became a topic for further study. Rick in the Focus was really good with the passing signals!!

I hope it is not as hot in August, oil temps prevented a full session.

[Dr K]

Evan,
I found the two most typical "conductors" in black both let me by when they didn't recognize my new car Perhaps you should repaint your car (or get a new one), or at the very least, put on a dark gray carbon fiber hood--with your yellow fenders, many not looking closely will give you a quick point-by!

Peter

[BlackTalon]

Originally Posted by Dr K

Evan,
I found the two most typical "conductors" in black both let me by when they didn't recognize my new car Perhaps you should repaint your car (or get a new one), or at the very least, put on a dark gray carbon fiber hood--with your yellow fenders, many not looking closely will give you a quick point-by!

Peter

The two cars in question are serial offenders. They are content letting slow cars/ drovers (like me) stay behind them for multiple laps. When a point-by is finally given, they generally drag race to the next corner. I received a point-by out of T10 last DE (after trailing behind for 3 laps, including being up their tail pipes in all the braking zones and turns), and only completed the pass at the apex of T1. So no other cars were able to get by on the main straight, when there was a train.

[Potomac-Greg]

Picking up on one of your sub-points, I suppose that there might be a benefit to encouraging those stuck behind the locomotive to swap positions so that the conductor can "see new headlights" but that's mostly a gift to the cars further back. I've done this and all it buys me is a longer ride on the train. In a momentum car, you only get so many opportunities to get by, and it often cannot executed quickly. Swapping from second to third (or fourth) on the choo choo could buy me another lap behind the conductor! Worse yet, it means you have to back off the bumper of the guy holding everyone up, sometimes moving 2-3 spots back 'cause everyone assumes YOU are the reason for the clog!

The problem and the solution lies with the conductor.

PS: I've run NASA HPDE 3 with open-pass-with-point and it's great for keeping a wide range of cars moving around a track IF people use it. But it's always optional, never mandatory.

[whitecar]

"and I was there"... That is, I was out in the session of Evan's tape and seems that there was some really mentionable items. Thanks Evan for posting it.

Really,this is not meant to be a rag session, but the point that is trying to be made is......

There is apparently (and demonstrably) some data that is showing a real situation that the Black group is... NOT having as much fun as the Red group with exended passing.
Please let me know if you have different information or data... Well.. I reviewed Evans tape closely... did I say closely..I was in view for most of the session..(Yes, it did take me the whole damn sessoin to get away from him...nice smooth drive Evan.) and there are some really good things going on there as well as some "opportunities for improvement" going on as visible from the session.

I was going to note the actual times and actions with a play by play commentary, and actually wrote them down, but then, figured.. who the hell cares about "what Bob thinks"..
Point is, that a little cooperation cost little in time for either the passing car, or the car being passed. Evan gives me a pass after 6, and just moves 6' or so to the left, I was tight on the inside and out of his way very quickly. Later in the tape, Evan lets the white Cayman by in 3, and does not really miss a beat. Passing in corners really can work. May not always be the fastest, but it can be the fun way to go.

In general, normal passing zone form was good... lots of quick passing signals approaching straights etc... all 944's seemed to be totally on board at approach to straights and normal passing zones... (remember, turns are now passing zones..)

There is not ever a requirement to "give" or "take" a pass!
And, if you wave it off.... wave it off for 5 seconds... so the upfront driver can proceed with confidence that you are not going to take the pass ..now..


So.. might see more of this type of video when available, but it only will help if I can track down a similar session in RED where it seems to work better.

I am really not trying to call out the black group, but I personally know many of you and just how capable you are. Just want to improve the "flow" of the sessions. That's the major difference between Black and Red. There are cars in red that are slower than black, but there is also a flow to a RED session that is pretty much hard to imagine until you experience it. Any Black Drivers that have not gone for a RECENT ride in RED with a fellow driver/instructor, should do so IMMEDIATELY... Not saying Red is better, just that they take more advantage of the "extended passsing" and the "know thy neighbor" policies....It really is fun and I think it is worth the chase.

Please understand that I and Dirk truely do respect the quality of the Black group drivers, we only want to make the sessions as fun and safe as possible.

Remember, all instructors can ride with other instructors... and that is the key to the whole thing... the BS goes away, talking smooth and fast is one thing, going for a ride and showing smooth and fast is another... Sorry non instructors cannot ride with other black/red drivers due to insurance...... "Policies".

Remember, we really want this to be "fun, fast, and safe".

And... more useless words from Bob... This is the best "hobby" there is... (and if you do a cost comparison.. we come up cheap when compared to boating...!

Disclaimer:
Please disregard any above information that does not pertain to you either due to :
driving status, car cost, car speed, car capabilites, driver capabilities, general life superiorities, size of pretty much anything, respect, cost of car, sound of car, color of car... etc....

Can't wait for more fun at Pfest......weather prediction...high about 82, no rain, a little breeze....(I'm lying again...) see everyone soooon.




Bob m