Track Talk A place to talk about Track and DE Events, share driving tips and other Track related items. |
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#11
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Quote:
As everybody has said cooling is the key. Also a good brake fluid. And some of the issues can be your braking technique. Which should be adjusted as you get faster.
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Todd -- 18 GT3 (VG) Gone 18 718 Cayman GTS (GT Silver) 14 981 Cayman S (white) 15 991.1 GT3 11 997.2 GT3 96 993 Targa 96 993 C2 tracker 00 986 Boxster S 99 986 Boxster |
#12
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Cooling first - might fix all your problems.
Also, brake less!!
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Peter (not "Pete") K. 2016 Cayman S 1999 Miata ("SM") race car 2016 Toyota Highlander--tow vehicle/wife's DD 2017 VW GTI SE (DD) Gone and missed: 1992 Miata ("SSM") race car 2009 911 C2S Coupe 2004 Toyota Prius - sold to son's girlfriend 2006 Dodge Durango 2003 Acura MDX 86 Black 911 Coupe race car 86 Gold 911 Targa 82 WineRedMetallic 911 Targa |
#13
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I'm a big fan of Pagid Black front and rear. They bite like nothing else. That's very comforting going into Turn 1 at Summit; just know the rear end can get squirrely on cold tires. Not easy on rotors... YMMV. I also strongly recommend slotted rotors over cross-drilled... more material in the rotor to dissipate heat and they'll last a lot longer.
If you're getting fade/overheating, first place to start is your braking technique... threshold braking, not on and off, half-assing it, or dragging (i.e. into Turn 1), will do wonders for your brake temps. SS brake lines also help with pedal... I need to get a set for my Cayman (had them on the Boxster S). Has anyone used PFCs and Pagid Blacks on the same car? I'd be interested to know the difference in feel.
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Scott M. 2016 GT4 (Black) 2012 Cayman R (Silver - Sold) 2012 Cayman R (Black - RIP) 2002 Boxster S (Now my brother's) 2004 Cayenne S (Sold) The day I bought my first car, my father told me, "Just remember... you can't drive your house, but you can sleep in your car." |
#14
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Quote:
ed
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ed 2016 GT4 2005 Lotus Elise 1994 RX-7 R2 |
#15
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Stagger! The secret of NASCAR!
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Martin 2011 Cayman S (Gone) - Hardtop Blechster 2006 Cayman S (DD) 2016 Mazda CX-5 (Her DD) 2002 Boxster S (Gone) - Ragtop Blechster - Pura Patina! Dorkiphus: I buy it for the articles |
#16
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Ok - So I got to jump in on this for reasons that will be clear in a month. What is the reasons for heat issues with these brakes? Is it due to
A. Over heating the calipers and boiling the fluid? B. Air flow or lack of it into the disks? C. Some other issue? As far as pads, do the blacks usually go in the front? and the yellows in the rear? Is there a comparison to Hawk HT-70s and 60s? Educate me on Porsche (Caymen S and 996) brake issues please. Thanks |
#17
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Psssst...zirconium pucks
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Jim C. 2014 Cayman (Aka "Rubber Ducky") 1971 914 (back in the day) |
#18
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not lost
just don't want to waste money i do have ducts front and back i have been using sebro slotted rotors for the last three years, and i like them i ran all last season on one set of pfc08 and sebro slotted rotors and srf fluid i did the same the year before, no issues i think last season i was just running the pads too thin, putting more heat in the brake system ti shims are really not all that effective stainless steel pistons are supposed to help, but the way are made, they can cut through the back plate i pan not to do that this year how does pagid yellow compare to pfc08? one solution to this is to just not use brakes!
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Otto #906 2021 Boxster 25 2014 Cayman S 2012 Cayman S 2006 Boxster S |
#19
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My setup is as follows and works great. Though a set of pads only last me a day or two in the race car. Otto have you put in the gt3 master cylinder and booster?!?
GT2 ducts in front GT3 ducts in rear Pagid yellow front Pagid black rear Sebro slotted rotors Torque RT fluid Tom Chan's Mega Secret Custom Backing Plates (TCMSCBPs) bleed them a lot. and RT needs changing at small, regular intervals. its better than SRF in my experience but doesnt last as long . ymmv.
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--- 2012 987.2 R (endless build) 2009 997.2 C2S 2012 F-150 (tow) --- 2013 991.1 C2 (sold) 2013 335i (RIP) 2001 4Runner (left by side of road in Georgia) 1990 Legend LS (RIP) 1988 Toyota 2WD reg cab (donated) 1987 GTi (sold) 1990 (TOM)Celica GTS (RIP) |
#20
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Only use different front and rear brake pad compound if you're having brake bias issues for your driving of your car. If you do as other people say without knowing why then you're driving with a solution for another car's problem. PFC 08 is a great all around pad for its "medium aggressive" initial bite, medium level of progression torque, and medium level of rotor wear. Pagid Black RS14 has more stopping torque but at the expense of wearing down the rotors faster as a result of more torque which equates to more stopping power(but ultimately the wear rate is also factored by maximum available tire grip, the driver's application, and ABS intervention). Pagid Yellows RS29 has less initial bite than PFC 08 so by switching to them you will have to adjust your brake application and/or your reference points. The trade off is less stopping power but rotors will last longer. As an extreme example some pads even have such aggressive initial bite that a car's suspension setup needs to change to use such pads. In addition to rotor wear rate, also consider the wear rate of the pads themselves. To give you an example on pad wear rate, in 24-hour racing in a 996 Cup with OE production brake calipers and OE rotors and ABS, Pagid RS14 Black pads last 8-10 hours, Pagid RS19/29 Yellow last 12-14 hours, PFC 08 is somewhere between the two Pagid's. It has been my personal experience that the Pagid's in question tend develop some "characteristics" after x amount of heat cycles. Whereas PFC pads tend to be more consistent throughout its life. Perhaps the Pagid's in question here even though they're considered as a benchmark for track braking since the early to mid-2000, the technology is aging. Braking issues come in many forms. Can be caused by brakes, or suspension, or driver, or PSM, or combination of. Some cars have inherent braking issues by OE design so multiple parts need to be changed out for the solution. You need to elaborate on your braking issue. With all that said, you need to know if your goal is to optimize stopping power(that's within the limit of max available tire grip) or optimize wear or optimize consistent feel so that you can make a sound decision. Maybe what you have been using is the best choice, or maybe not. As for not wasting money...well...tracking a car is p!ssing away money with no guarantee on results. |
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