[Vicegrip]

Originally Posted by Irfan

As I noted, the car wasn't a Porsche. Its stability control was intervening a lot when fully on, constantly letting him get away with things that were forming bad habits, impeding learning, and building dangerous overconfidence. With stability control in Sport setting, it was still on and available to help prevent a crash, but with a higher threshold for intervention, so that he could at least see his mistakes and correct them himself. I also asked him to dial back the speed and focus on precision and consistency rather than speed. We never turned the stability control all the way off, and I told him not to (wouldn't have let him, even if he insisted and got pissed).

To me, a moral of the story is that it's an oversimplification to say stability control is all good or all bad. Too low a threshold for intervention will definitely impede learning. Having it all the way off takes away a safety net which could prevent a crash, and is best suited for experienced and disciplined drivers (with sufficient funds or insurance ). Happy medium is a reasonably high threshold for intervention so that it only kicks in when really needed.

Another lesson I draw from this is that if a student shows too much interest in going fast (beyond skill and experience), I may say "first show me three consecutive laps at moderate speed hitting every mark perfectly before we talk about going faster."

Edit: Another clarification. Stability control in Sport setting ('partially on') was similar to PSM fully on in the Cayman R. When I said it's 'partially on' that was a poor choice of words. It was still fully on, but with a threshold more reasonable for the track. I'm very familiar with the student's car, so I knew what the different settings do.

I retract my last post which was made while this ^ one was being dropped in.

How about "Lets dial it back a little" and not sound like a total ass? I would like to see you post a video of 3 "perfect" laps. I am happy to get 2 or 3 "real good" or "That was a nice one" corners in a lap.

There is a forest around the tree you see.

[Ryan]

Irfan, don't take this the wrong way, but your overzealous approach to want to go from green=>red=>instructor=>racer all in under a year isn't safe for anyone out there, nor possible ... Slow down, enjoy driving, and things will come in time. And that's what it takes is time. There is no shortcut. Post all you want how you've "instructed" in some groups or "raced" at comp school if it makes you feel better, but it won't make you true driver/instructor/racer, nor will it buy you credibility. As everyone here has tried to point out, again, it takes time which builds experience. Above is why people have been saying this. Your learning to "instruct" is at their expense of other drivers safety. Inexperience, or really lack of understanding you are inexperienced, can have serious consequences in this sport.

[CanAm]

Originally Posted by cmartin

You could have stopped there

Maybe this forum just isn't the right place to seek advice. There are plenty of helpful people here, but then there others ...

FWIW, people routinely come up to me at the track and encourage me to keep asking questions that many want to ask but are 'afraid' to. I generally don't mind doing it, because I want the answers too. But there comes a point where the hassle isn't worth it, and I may be getting there. Maybe it's time for others take a turn asking the questions.

[CanAm]

Originally Posted by Vicegrip

I retract my last post which was made while this ^ one was being dropped in.

How about "Lets dial it back a little" and not sound like a total ass? I would like to see you post a video of 3 "perfect" laps. I am happy to get 2 or 3 "real good" or "That was a nice one" corners in a lap.

There is a forest around the tree you see.

It's not that I'd actually insist on the perfect laps before going faster. The real purpose of the exercise would be to show the student that there other things he should be focusing on before trying to go as fast as possible. With this student, I did say let's dial a back a little and said/did a lot of other things to get the point across without ruining his fun. But it was somewhat of a struggle all day. In retrospect, I think I should have been stricter than I was.

[}{arlequin]

Originally Posted by Irfan

there other things he should be focusing on before trying to go as fast as possible.

if only you could apply this to yourself instead of 'speeding'
through green--->instructor--->racer

[John Clay]

Originally Posted by Irfan

Maybe this forum just isn't the right place to seek advice. There are plenty of helpful people here, but then there others ...

FWIW, people routinely come up to me at the track and encourage me to keep asking questions that many want to ask but are 'afraid' to. I generally don't mind doing it, because I want the answers too. But there comes a point where the hassle isn't worth it, and I may be getting there. Maybe it's time for others take a turn asking the questions.

I could be wrong - I didn't go back and sample your posts, but do you really "ask" for advice? Just for kicks, try in your next post to ask for advice in the form of a question. It's the key just to the right of >.

[CanAm]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Irfan, don't take this the wrong way, but your overzealous approach to want to go from green=>red=>instructor=>racer all in under a year isn't safe for anyone out there, nor possible ... Slow down, enjoy driving, and things will come in time. And that's what it takes is time. There is no shortcut. Post all you want how you've "instructed" in some groups or "raced" at comp school if it makes you feel better, but it won't make you true driver/instructor/racer, nor will it buy you credibility. As everyone here has tried to point out, again, it takes time which builds experience. Above is why people have been saying this. Your learning to "instruct" is at their expense of other drivers safety. Inexperience, or really lack of understanding you are inexperienced, can have serious consequences in this sport.

Your points are well taken. I haven't set any timeframe goals for reaching any particular stage of driving, instructing, or racing. I've just continued to do my best and let the next step happen when it comes.

My interest in higher run groups is mainly for extended passing and being among cars with similar pace and good SA. I've done fine in those run groups, never contributed to an incident, had someone complain to me, been black flagged, delayed a point by, etc.

Instructing wasn't on my radar, but people who knew me and my driving suggested it, and I gradually became receptive to the idea. I've had four students so far, I feel like I have decent potential as an instructor based on feedback from students, watching students progress, and comparison with my own many past instructors, but I know that instructing skill will come with instructing experience. And of course that applies to every instructor, so I can't fault myself for that.

No hurry on racing. I had a blast at the race school, but a lot of things to sort out before I can do it for real. Maybe it will happen this season, but not a big deal if it doesn't. Still plenty that can be learned through DEs.

[CanAm]

Originally Posted by John Clay

I could be wrong - I didn't go back and sample your posts, but do you really "ask" for advice? Just for kicks, try in your next post to ask for advice in the form of a question. It's the key just to the right of >.

Sometimes I explicitly ask (brake pads, rotors, tires, instructing, etc.), but often the advice comes automatically by just posting a topic. This WTB thread is a good example. Wanted a GT3, but got all kinds of advice to get an older car, not ready, etc.

[rs911t]

This thread long ago became tedious and wearisome. I'm gonna close it. Someone can resurrect it if they disagree.