[RS4Ship]

Hey Guys, first post here. I know some of you from Karting, and you may remember my Red Miata track car from a few track days last year

I've been in the market for an air cooled 911 for a few months now, but still haven't found the right one. Friend of my dad's has a 1970 911t for sale that he has owned since 1983, and he's giving me first right of refusal before it goes to auction. Car was painted brown sometime in the 80's, was originally blue (not sure which blue yet, still waiting on details). Engine was also rebuilt in the late 80's, to a claimed 2.5l with weber carbs (supposedly 60k miles on rebuild). It is supposedly still a numbers matching block and original 901 transaxle (never rebuilt). My dad said it had over 200k miles but I haven't been able to confirm. Not sure about service history yet, owner is claiming it's in very good condition. I'm not sure what to offer him for it, or what it's worth.

I'd really like to pick up a car that I can hot rod a bit. Maybe something I can pick up for $20k that I can enjoy now, while spending the next few years upgrading looks, suspension, brakes and engine to make it a really unique weekend/track experience. Lots of people have told me I should get an SC or G50 car as a platform if I plan on hot rodding, but I think the long hoods look sweet, like the white one below.

Anyway, questions about this car:

1) That rear bumper that you can barely see looks like it's from an SC or mid year. I found a new OEM between bumper insert for $500, is it really that easy of a fix?
2) Hard to tell from the really crappy pictures, but doesn't it look like the rear deck doesn't align with the rear quarter panel? I'm starting to wonder if this thing was rear ended, hence the reason for the new bumper, paint job, etc.
3) Whats the impact on the price given that it has been painted a not so flattering brown from the original blue, it may have 200k miles and it has what sounds like extensive engine modifications. Hagerty's says the car is worth $32k in Condition #4 (Fair), but it doesn't take any of this into account. I need to know if this is a good hotrod candidate or if I should try to put it back to stock, sell it and use profit to find a better candidate. Could this really be a $40k car without extensive restoration?
4) What do you think would be a fair price range given what I've shared if the PPI comes back showing original body work, no rust, no oil leaks, good compression, etc?

Car is nearly 1000 miles away, so I want to have a good idea of what I'm getting and what I'm going to do before I go check it out and before I pay to have a PPI done.

Thanks in advance for the help! I'll post updates after I hear back from the seller on some of the questions I've asked.

[RS4Ship]

Update:

Rear bumper is fiberglass, car has 203k miles and the trans was rebuilt along with the engine 60k miles ago (30 years ago). It's been in FL since 2011 and has been driven very little over past few years. Original color is light blue, not sure about paint code yet. It was painted metallic brown which is a 944 color.

[86911TLCAB]

what do you mean by hotrod? if it were me and i was buying a longhood which is largely original...i would be keeping it that way...or taking it back to its original state...that is where the cars value will go up...

[racer]

Rear bumper upgrade was popular in the 1980s so you wouldn't get caught seen in an "old, slow 911" from the early 1970s. How the pendulum has swung!

As you have learned, original longhoods, matching numbers etc are going through an amazing trend/bubble of prices. If you want a "hot rod" that's up to you.

40+ year old, 200K mile car. Look for rust too.. battery boxes, front pan, rear seat shelf.. the usual rust spots for these cars.

[Noah]

You're going to spend an enormous amount of money "hot-rodding" a 1970 911T motor, which is probably the worst starting platform possible for 911 engine mods. This engine doesn't even have piston squirters (I speak from experience -- I have a 1970 911T). You will reduce the value of the car by modifying it, unless you do period-correct mods. If it's a solid car, you will have something valuable and special on your hands if you restore it more or less to original or period-correct condition and enjoy it as what it is, a vintage car that can be outperformed by a modern Honda Accord. If you don't want the vintage car experience, it will be far cheaper and more satisfying to buy a modern car. A 1970 911 is very old technology at this point. Carbs, no power brakes, stiff clutch, noisy, smelly. You have to really dig all of that for an old 911 to work for you.

[RS4Ship]

Thanks guys, appreciate the advice. I forgot to ask about the battery tray area specifically. And it's funny to think that the fiberglass rear bumper was considered an "upgrade", wouldn't have thought of that

So this is still considered "mostly original"? I would have figured the extensive internal engine mods and the paint alone would take it away from being a "largely original" car. But that's what I really wanted to know. It would probably cost at least $20k to bring this thing back to original.

Unfortunately in this case, the motor has already been "hotrodded" and I believe oil squirters were added when the motor was rebuilt. It's already a 2.5l from a 2.2, which is a problem if I'm trying to go back to factory spec. I posted pictures of the white car as a reference of what I mean by "hotrod". I consider those tasteful modifications, but to each their own. Looks like I should keep looking for a non numbers matching car, but I think I'll still pick this one up to enjoy for a while and flip eventually. Once I get the numbers I'll post them back up just to make sure it really is numbers matching...never know what that shop did back in the 80's

[GT3]

If it is numbers matching and not rusted then it is too valuable to hotrod.

The picture you posted of the white car is a SWB (short wheel base) 911 or 912, 1965-1968. Best base for a SWB hotrod is the 912. Unless a 912 is already retored matching numbers, this is a great platform to make a tribute 911R lightweight as per your picture. If you dOn't like the short wheelbase then there was the last year of the 912 in 1969 which is long wheelbase.

https://www.google.com/search?q=911R...m=122&ie=UTF-8

[Vicegrip]

as said pictured White car SWB. The copper/brown car is showing indication that it it is a post 1969 LWB. If a 70 and not rusty in all the many many places they get rusty then as said, hotrodding it would be expensive in inital outlay and the loss of ROI.

Rust is the #1 thing to check. They can be smooth and shiny on the outside and eaten up in some expensive places inside. Open the doors and check where the B pillar curves down into the rocker, the rockers, the entire front end, the floor pans the rear seat area and the area all around and under the rear T bar pivots. The front fenders like to rust out where the front wheel slings grit and salt into the front fender. Many times this gets "fixed" with bondo and paint rather than via the proper methods.

[RS4Ship]

Thanks again for the help guys, between the feedback I've gotten here and people I've talked to I think it's obvious this is/could be a very neat car. Everyone I've talked to has emphasized rust as a major concern. I'm having a friend of a friend who works at a local Porsche Dealership do the PPI. He's a Porsche Mechanic obviously, but not necessarily a specialist on older air cooled Porsches. I'm going to give him a list of things to check over closely including everything you've mentioned. I'm not going to have a leak down test or anything done unless there are signs of issues during the test drive.

Starting to get really excited. I did find out that the seats have been re-upholstered, and a modern radio/speaker/amp has been installed. The owner has done all his own valve adjustments and carb tuning, so he only has records on major work. I think the plan will be to get the paint, interior and exterior back to OEM and hopefully leave the motor as is if it checks out. I just got my 1978 Yamaha XS1100 on the road, will be cool to bring another 70's icon back to it's formal glory in the same year

[LPM911]

Buy it. Turn it into your dream car. Sounds like its not collector car material, so if you like it, then go for it.

As others have said, watch out for rust. Otherwise, drive it and enjoy it.