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  #1  
Old 12-05-2019, 10:20 AM
tomfree tomfree is offline
 
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Default Mental exercise...'87-'88 911

I kept this out of the WTB forum, as I am NOT ready to truly pursue this now...but I need some mental P-car stimulation.

I have a list of cars in my head that I could realistically own, and I cycle through the list regularly of which one I want at that moment. (C5 Z06, 993 C2S, E92 M3, S550 Mustang, 996 TT, etc.).

The one on my mind at current is the '87-'88 911 w/ the G50 trans and the 3.2 - a "best of breed" car IMHO. I was watching a Matt Farah/The Smoking Tire YouTube video last week (don't judge...) where he buys an '88 and does the "Safari" treatment on it. It was a narrow-body with a whaletale, clearly a well-kept "driver" car with about 90K miles. Before the car was modified, he gave a thorough walk around and test drive, and it reminded me of everything that was right about a friend's '77 911, plus all the improvements they made before the 964 was released.

What I think I want is a very-close-to stockish car, that will be a fun driver on weekends and will make the occasional slog to work. No track time, probably no auto-x, just a usable, streetable car that won't spend all it's time on jackstands.

So...Dorki faithful are asking "What does this have to do with us?"
- Value-wise, have we hit the top of the range for these yet?
- Are these cars truly as bullet-proof as legend has it? (Yes, I know a good engine rebuild for these is $20K-$30K)
- If you were shopping for one, what are the "must-have" services, modifications, etc. ?
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'21 Q5 PHEV (DD, dog hauler) | '22 GR Supra (OLOA) | '93 Mustang GT (Crapcan) | '16 BMW R1200RT (Cop bike)
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2019, 10:51 AM
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FWIW, I've learned the hard way that 993 3.6 motors are likely great for street driving, but may be compromised for constant high RPM running on the track. As was explained to me, the rods we're lightened to facilitate faster revving, versus the 964's motor, and resulting narrower connecting rod bolts are less robust. The motor can be upgraded with stouter parts, but OEM has its limitation.
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- Tony P.

Currently
- 1984 944 SP2 racer
- 1977 911 KM Special vintage racer
- 2012 Cayman R (also the wife's)
- 2000 Boxster S (now mine)

- 1995 993 (garage queen)
- 2007 Cayman S (wife's track beast)
- 2017 F350 (tow monster)
- 2018 Jeep Wrangler

Gone but not forgotten
- 1989 944S2
- 1979 RX7
- 1986 944
- 1991 944S2 (in car heaven...)
- 2001 Chevy Suburban 2500 (FIL's beast now)
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2019, 11:18 AM
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They are old. Old HVAC. No power steering. No ABS. Many folks don't particularly enjoy these traits when slogging to work. Weekend fun time? sure (if you actually have the free time )

I believe the price bubble is shrinking on daily driver examples. Concours low mileage original examples will always be the price outliers.

Bullet proof? valve guides have always been an issue on the 3.2 motors. And, at this age, I'd be concerned about usual wear items like clutches and the rubber suspension bits.. and the rubber fuel lines (i think there is a line "behind" the motor that is subject to issues that results in fires)

be sure to PPI

I imagine Targas and Cabs would be cheaper than Coupes given the vintage. However, being just a fun weekend car, maybe a Targa or Cab is more appealing?
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- 1970 914-6
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- 2000 Boxster
- 1987 944
- 1987 924S
- 1978 911 Euro SC
- 1976 914 2.0
- 1970 914 1.7 / 2056cc
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2019, 11:49 AM
tomfree tomfree is offline
 
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Ah...Targas and Cabs...I didn't specify. Absolutely no cabs, I've never liked the lines of a 911 cab, even to this day (hence why I own a Boxster).

Targas...maybe, but what I see in my head is a coupe.

As for the "They're old" comment, I've recently been through that in a "Never meet your heros" experience. I was pursuing a round-tail 2002 earlier this year, and I found my dream car in Woodbridge. I hadn't driven an '02 in 15 years, and went to test drive this pristine '71...and hated it. I met my hero and I was disappointed. It sucked.

So...is an '87 911 going to fall in that same "I don't like driving old cars" category? I don't think so. My last car of that generation was an '87 325is that I sold a few years ago. I LOVED that car and was a fool to sell it. My instinct is that's as old as I'd be willing to consider, as it won't feel ancient like that '02.

What I really want, and have driven recently, is a 993 C2S. My CEO has a pristine example with 22k miles, and he threw me the keys recently. It was absolutely lovely to drive. The price of entry, even for a higher mileage driver-quality car, is too high for me.
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'21 Q5 PHEV (DD, dog hauler) | '22 GR Supra (OLOA) | '93 Mustang GT (Crapcan) | '16 BMW R1200RT (Cop bike)
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Old 12-05-2019, 12:14 PM
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N Fotouhi N Fotouhi is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfree View Post
What I really want, and have driven recently, is a 993 C2S. My CEO has a pristine example with 22k miles, and he threw me the keys recently. It was absolutely lovely to drive. The price of entry, even for a higher mileage driver-quality car, is too high for me.
But then you drive a 992 and have the same reaction.

Porsche has made improvement to every succeeding generation of 911 (a captain obvious statement in case you have forgotten it). The ride in a Carrera could be a "disappointment" compared to the 964, which will be a disappointment compared to a 993, and on and on. What is your expectations?

You buy an old air cooled (the newest is 20+) cause you like the warts and all, and are willing to DIY or spend the money to keep it tip-top and smile every mile you drive it. IMHO, a 22K miles 20+ YO car should be crushed, but I know to each its own.

We buy them to enjoy, not worry that the it brings half of what we paid for it.
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There are 3 sides to every story. Mine, yours, and the truth.

91 944 S2 - Mine, Sold
7? 914-6 Vintage racer - Mine
93 964 - Not mine
95 993 - Hers - Sold and will be missed
04 GT3 - ours? Doing double duties at DE, anyway
06 987 - Hers - plan to let son use for DE - My DIY
A few others
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:16 PM
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Sounds like you need to find one for a test drive!

I would be concerned about the "dont meet your heroes" thing.. especially if you really liked the 993. That is a much more modern car than the 3.2.

Recall, even your 1987 BMW came out in 1984.. so design started around 1981 or 2? The 87 911 is a massaging of the 1978 SC, itself, just a massaged '74... which was just a refined '64... The 911 was already "old" when the 3.2 came out

For me, despite loving 914s, when I went from my SC, to a Boxster, back to a 944, and had the chance to drive 3.2 on occasion, the 911 I felt "old". Compared to you '11 Boxster it will feel archaic. Maybe thats ok though.

My bet is that a 964 is likely the better "old school" 911 vs the 3.2, but only you can determine that! Enjoy the search! (maybe consider a "driver" E30 M3?)
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Dave
- 1970 914-6
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- 2000 Boxster
- 1987 944
- 1987 924S
- 1978 911 Euro SC
- 1976 914 2.0
- 1970 914 1.7 / 2056cc
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  #7  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer View Post
Old HVAC.
WTF are you talking about? I'd put the heating system in my '87 up against that in ANY modern car...
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- 2021 quickly disappearing...
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Old 12-05-2019, 12:53 PM
tomfree tomfree is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N Fotouhi View Post
IMHO, a 22K miles 20+ YO car should be crushed, but I know to each its own.
Yeah, he keeps 2-3 "investment grade" cars at a time, and generally turns them over between 6 months and a year. He's had the 993 for 2 years now, so it is past due. Sometimes he makes money, sometimes he loses his shirt. He just wants to own all of his "heros" at some point.
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'21 Q5 PHEV (DD, dog hauler) | '22 GR Supra (OLOA) | '93 Mustang GT (Crapcan) | '16 BMW R1200RT (Cop bike)
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2019, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackTalon View Post
WTF are you talking about? I'd put the heating system in my '87 up against that in ANY modern car...
Heat? Sure..

A/C? mmm not so much (at least that's been my experience).
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- 1970 914-6
Past
- 2000 Boxster
- 1987 944
- 1987 924S
- 1978 911 Euro SC
- 1976 914 2.0
- 1970 914 1.7 / 2056cc
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2019, 01:08 PM
tomfree tomfree is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N Fotouhi View Post
But then you drive a 992 and have the same reaction.

Porsche has made improvement to every succeeding generation of 911 (a captain obvious statement in case you have forgotten it). The ride in a Carrera could be a "disappointment" compared to the 964, which will be a disappointment compared to a 993, and on and on. What is your expectations?

You buy an old air cooled (the newest is 20+) cause you like the warts and all, and are willing to DIY or spend the money to keep it tip-top and smile every mile you drive it. IMHO, a 22K miles 20+ YO car should be crushed, but I know to each its own.

We buy them to enjoy, not worry that the it brings half of what we paid for it.
Re: What is my expectation?
Excellent question.
- The look is important, as many of these cars represent a time in my life when I thought they were the coolest thing on the road.
- The sound is probably more important than it should be. I've owned 9 straight-6 BMWs because that sound just makes me happy. My Boxster has a Fabspeed muffler...and I love the sound.
- It needs to feel "special" to drive. Obviously there is a fine line between special and ancient. The steering needs to have the right feel, the gearbox, etc.
- It needs to be usable. I've had quite a few cars that were modified to a point where they were fairly unpleasant to drive outside of their narrow purpose. I'm a slow learner and took a long time to figure this out. The reason why the Boxster has been so popular in my household is that you can jump right in and drive it anywhere without feeling beaten up, smelling of gasoline/oil, or deaf from the exhaust.
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'21 Q5 PHEV (DD, dog hauler) | '22 GR Supra (OLOA) | '93 Mustang GT (Crapcan) | '16 BMW R1200RT (Cop bike)
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