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#1
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Simulators as a learning tool
My daughter, Lara, says there are a number of folks on this forum who are both accomplished track drivers and use simulators. I need info.
I bought Assetto Corsa last year because somebody had "modded" Pitt Race for it and there was a collection of Porsches available. They have a 718 Boxster with PDK that I could make pretty close to my R. The big differences are it is a bit faster but it doesn't have track brakes. I figure it is about as even as I will get. I've spent the last couple of months running the 718 mostly at Pitt Race along with a couple of other tracks. The big thing I am trying to learn is how to trail brake better and to carry more speed through corners. This is paying off and I am consistently 4-5 seconds faster than the best I have done in real life. My question is how much of this, if anything, will I actually be able to use in May?
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Bob Peirce [Lara's Dad for those who care] 2016 Audi A7 2021 718 GT4, PDK |
#2
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My "opinion" is sims are good for getting a general idea of the line of a track, and that's about it. Beats watching youtube videos because it's interactive. I can usually only last a half lap on youtube before I start daydreaming.
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Turning good track cars into other people's headaches since 1990 Denis Jenkins (PCA'86) 95 318ti S54 97 318ti S52 95 M3 S54 vin 00067 87 RX7 ITS 02 330i 98 328i 71 911T 70 Karmann Ghia, 96 f350 7.3 available Gone 4 356's,1 996, 4 911's, 1 912, 2 Boxster S, 5 914's, 3 944's, 3 951, 1 924S, 3 95 m3, 03 M3,95 Ti/CS. 97M345, 84 rx7chump car, ITB gti 21, ITB GTI 48, 89 325is s52,07 Z4 coupe, 69 Charger General Lee, 2 66 Cadillac verts, 1 68 cadillac vert, and many many others |
#3
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Simulators have a place, certainly help to learn the general track where you turn right or left, show the reference points. Unless you have one of the F1 team sims, it won't give you the feel of the track or the grip levels and won't hurt when you crash and burn
Dirk
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Safety Chair, PCA Potomac Region Retired DE Chair, PCA Potomac Region. Retired Co-Chief Instructor PCA Potomac 2008-2012 1971 914/6 (Factory) 3.2 Track car 1988 911 Targa 1986 944 |
#4
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Quote:
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2019 Corvette Z07 - Urf-Qke #777 2016 Corvette Z07 - LightSpeed #707 2014 Cayman S - Sparkles #81 2005 Corvette jackstand racecar |
#5
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Any local? Where?
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Jay 2013 C2S Racecars are like strippers, we just keep throwing money at them hoping someday they give us the ride of our lives… |
#6
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Though his has custom features so not off-the-shelf exactly - I think he bought a lot of parts. I aspire to a similar rig but no VR for me - I tried it and made me sick in half a lap.
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--- 2012 987.2 R (endless build) 2009 997.2 C2S 2012 F-150 (tow) --- 2013 991.1 C2 (sold) 2013 335i (RIP) 2001 4Runner (left by side of road in Georgia) 1990 Legend LS (RIP) 1988 Toyota 2WD reg cab (donated) 1987 GTi (sold) 1990 (TOM)Celica GTS (RIP) |
#7
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When BMWs Oktoberfest was at Road America I used Yani’s need for speed simulator to learn the track. Not only did it greatly accelerate my learning of the track, I took a couple rides with peers before it was my time to drive, and I could tell what they were doing was not right. My 1st session best lap was within 2 seconds of my PB for the weekend which was respectable. Interestingly, my sim times improved a bunch after driving the track fo realz.
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Bob 04 GT3 86 Carrera 97 318ti "Guys, I'm coming in, I have too much grip." |
#8
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thats consistent w my experience. I always log some time on my wee laptop based sim or #ChucksBasement. Massively helpful for learning sectors...even if I have driven there but not in a while, it's a great tool to re-orient as well
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--- 2012 987.2 R (endless build) 2009 997.2 C2S 2012 F-150 (tow) --- 2013 991.1 C2 (sold) 2013 335i (RIP) 2001 4Runner (left by side of road in Georgia) 1990 Legend LS (RIP) 1988 Toyota 2WD reg cab (donated) 1987 GTi (sold) 1990 (TOM)Celica GTS (RIP) |
#9
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Real force feedback and VR (important because it allows you to use yours head and eyes correctly without irrelevant key strokes) provide two very important things:
1. Track familiarization, especially on non-obvious ball busters like RA, Mid-O, etc. You arrive at the track without a worry about what's next around the bend. 2. You train yourself to fluidly respond. It's a learned behavior and is important like skid pad is important. You create mental maps and programs that make you more in tune with the inputs you're receiving. Visual inputs are very good with any decent graphics package and VR. They are not the exact same inputs but they are inputs and you are responding. Good force feedback prepares you to identify and response to kinetic inputs. Again they aren't the same feelings but your mind can map them pretty quickly in the car. So visually you can detect speed (in fact that's the only sensor we have), yaw rate (even if we can't literally feel it), pitch rate, upset car. Force feed back in the wheel tunes you to be looking for SOME information in your hands all the time. Force feedback in the pedals let's you practice subtle braking. There is no downside and as pointed out the feedback loop works in both directions. Track<->Sim There's some mythology about simmers being bad drivers but I expect any truth lies in the character of the driver mistaking simulation with reality wrapped in arrogance. They would probably be dangerous without sim experience as well Also, you get up from 90 minutes at RA soaked in Schweat and raggedy just like the real thing.
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Martin 2011 Cayman S (Gone) - Hardtop Blechster 2006 Cayman S (DD) 2016 Mazda CX-5 (Her DD) 2002 Boxster S (Gone) - Ragtop Blechster - Pura Patina! Dorkiphus: I buy it for the articles Last edited by N0tt0N; 03-08-2018 at 06:28 PM. |
#10
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Thanks, all. It appears YMMV. Some things will transfer and some not.
As many have said, I do find it useful to learn tracks I have never driven. Having done that I want to learn how to drive them well and I do that in the sim. I did find that anything I know about tracks I have actually driven transferred perfectly to the sim, which made me wonder how well it would go the other way. Apparently some, but not 100%. I guess I will just have to wait and see. My system is pretty good but not great. I have an excellent wheel and pedal set. No VR yet but a really big TV screen. AC is reputed to be one of the best sims available. The track renderings are unbelievable. The only thing I feel I really lack that could be important is any feeling of motion, especially G forces. You get a sense of that in tire slip, FFB and things like that but it isn't the same. The good thing is you can test ideas without killing yourself or breaking your car!!
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Bob Peirce [Lara's Dad for those who care] 2016 Audi A7 2021 718 GT4, PDK |
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