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Old 03-04-2020, 10:18 AM
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Default Data Acquisition thread

Have been getting alot of questions and helping outfit cars with data systems for the upcoming track season and it was suggested to start a thread where people can ask questions to help figure out the steps they want to take, available features, hidden features, and cool gadgets.

I have been using data alot with my coaching and with data sales have seen and sold some great products. I know there has been multiple talks in classroom on the use of data and plenty of locals using it so please feel free to add/answer/question/ suggest/request and hopefully we can help out anyone looking to start with data, already in data, or looking to start or upgrade.

I guess I will give my opinion a bit and some may not agree or have a different approach.....if it makes anyone a safer or better driver that's the goal.

1. Only buy data equipment if you will use it......if your not gonna take the time to use it...buy seat time.

2. Many are visual learners...especially in the beginning so video can be a great help, gopro, action cams, ANYTHING....I started with a Sony handicam and hi8 tapes (which I may still have).

3 Set Goals - review video, data, or just your memory of what your having trouble with.....a certain corner, down shifts, transitions to throttle...... pick 3 or so things and focus on them until your happy but dont overwhelm yourself with too many tasks.

For the first post I dont really want to go into specific systems or manufacturers but just want to get people thinking about making the most of this years track season

I'll open it up to anyone, or I'll just keep posting until people make fun of me (which won't take long im sure)
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  #2  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:04 PM
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So what's your opinion on VBOX vs AIM
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Old 03-05-2020, 11:21 AM
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I try to get this back on track (pun intended) since I figure Ryan's comment sounds like what we would have classified under FUD responses.

There was an AIM dash and Smartycam on the 993 race car. The dash was great, but the best thing about it was the brake pressure sensor and G-sum that I had installed and programmed. It really allowed me to work on braking, and transitioning brake/throttle. I would say that unloading the data and learning to analyze would require efforts which I admit I lacked greatly, but when I hired coaches to talk me through the data (was not cheap), it was very helpful. So hiring someone who can teach you what to look for with AIM is essential, especially if you are not a tech geek.
We like to have a data system for the GT3. The problem is that it is not a full track/race car, so no dash which is why I have been thinking about Vbox based on what I hear about its simplicity. I guess we need to have you bring another one to demo in the car along with you showing us how to look at things after sessions.
That said, I do think there is something to be said about looking at the squiggly lines which I do not know if VBox offers. So question is, does it?
Also, I think an overview of price/function of various systems might be helpful for those considering a system.
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Old 03-05-2020, 12:53 PM
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VBox offers that, though I don't know which system has more or which is better. I've only used the VBox (and Harry's).

One of the first things I discovered when looking at the data was that I was letting off the brake slightly when heel-toeing. I couldn't feel it, but every lap going into turn 1 at VIR, you could see steady deceleration with two small upward spikes corresponding to when I downshifted from fifth to fourth to third.

Admittedly, I don't look at the graphs much. I mainly look at the video with overlays (which VBox does automatically) after a session and watch my min corner speeds. There are a couple corners I have been working on forever and the graphs aren't going to tell me what I already know (overbraking). So I think I went faster, check the min speeds, and nope, same as always... Chicken.
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Old 03-05-2020, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modian View Post
....One of the first things I discovered when looking at the data was that I was letting off the brake slightly when heel-toeing. I couldn't feel it, but every lap going into turn 1 at VIR, you could see steady deceleration with two small upward spikes corresponding to when I downshifted from fifth to fourth to third.....
FWIW, I discovered at Mid Ohio that while braking at the end of main straight, if I heel-toe'd using my normal foot-roll method onto the gas, I couldn't maintain enough braking pressure. Braking would be briefly reduced, affecting approach to the RH'r. I suspect that's what you're seeing in the data.

I learned that when 100% braking pressure is required, its better to use the old-skool method, where you rotate your foot, so that you're literally "standing" on the brake pedal with the ball of your foot, and then moving you're heel up & down on the throttle to blip.

This classic video shows both methods being used:
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der ABT View Post
1. Only buy data equipment if you will use it.
So happy this was your #1 because I've been meaning to ask you about your return policy.
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoodPin View Post
FWIW, I discovered at Mid Ohio that while braking at the end of main straight, if I heel-toe'd using my normal foot-roll method onto the gas, I couldn't maintain enough braking pressure. Braking would be briefly reduced, affecting approach to the RH'r. I suspect that's what you're seeing in the data.

I learned that when 100% braking pressure is required, its better to use the old-skool method, where you rotate your foot, so that you're literally "standing" on the brake pedal with the ball of your foot, and then moving you're heel up & down on the throttle to blip.

This classic video shows both methods being used:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLjZWrpzmQ

Always liked that video.....love the loafers!
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:34 PM
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Also, FWIW, with respect to data acquisition and subsequent analysis.....I haven't been using it as much as I should lately. But when I was racing more often in my 944Cup, I did enjoy looking at the data from my now clunky, but really good back in its heyday, RaceTechnology system data. I was able to identify lags in braking and throttle application, to try and become more efficient. You can also use the data to analyze and compare different approaches through a corner to improve your times. But without simultaneous video, this can be really difficult.

One feature I really like, and I think most systems still utilize today, is the "theoretical best" lap time you could derive from multiple sessions of data. The software assembles all your "best" segments into a single lap time. This allowed me to compare with my actual lap times, to better appreciate working for improvements. When your "theoretical best" is 2 seconds less than your single best lap time, you need to study the segment differences, to identify where you can try to eliminate mistakes and inefficiencies, and become more consistent. When your TB is within 1/2 second of your best lap times, then you know you're doing something right.

Of course.....when your lap times are as slow as mine.....then you have to work everywhere.
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- 2017 F350 (tow monster)
- 2018 Jeep Wrangler

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Old 03-05-2020, 04:23 PM
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I've found it really hard to learn how to analyze the data. I read the Squiggly Lines book and, for me, it was pretty useless. I'm not a technical person. There are some useful videos out there, but I haven't found a good course. Peter Krause told me at VIR last year that he and Ross Bentley are working on a seminar/video. I love the ease of the VBox video overlay and the predictive lap timer in the car, but I have to learn how to understand the data. A one-day (or several hours) course from basics to advanced data reading would be perfect.
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Old 03-06-2020, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara View Post
I've found it really hard to learn how to analyze the data. I read the Squiggly Lines book and, for me, it was pretty useless. I'm not a technical person. There are some useful videos out there, but I haven't found a good course. Peter Krause told me at VIR last year that he and Ross Bentley are working on a seminar/video. I love the ease of the VBox video overlay and the predictive lap timer in the car, but I have to learn how to understand the data. A one-day (or several hours) course from basics to advanced data reading would be perfect.
Yup what she said! Ditto!
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