Track Talk A place to talk about Track and DE Events, share driving tips and other Track related items. |
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#1
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Data Acquisition thread
Have been getting alot of questions and helping outfit cars with data systems for the upcoming track season and it was suggested to start a thread where people can ask questions to help figure out the steps they want to take, available features, hidden features, and cool gadgets.
I have been using data alot with my coaching and with data sales have seen and sold some great products. I know there has been multiple talks in classroom on the use of data and plenty of locals using it so please feel free to add/answer/question/ suggest/request and hopefully we can help out anyone looking to start with data, already in data, or looking to start or upgrade. I guess I will give my opinion a bit and some may not agree or have a different approach.....if it makes anyone a safer or better driver that's the goal. 1. Only buy data equipment if you will use it......if your not gonna take the time to use it...buy seat time. 2. Many are visual learners...especially in the beginning so video can be a great help, gopro, action cams, ANYTHING....I started with a Sony handicam and hi8 tapes (which I may still have). 3 Set Goals - review video, data, or just your memory of what your having trouble with.....a certain corner, down shifts, transitions to throttle...... pick 3 or so things and focus on them until your happy but dont overwhelm yourself with too many tasks. For the first post I dont really want to go into specific systems or manufacturers but just want to get people thinking about making the most of this years track season I'll open it up to anyone, or I'll just keep posting until people make fun of me (which won't take long im sure)
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Evan 87 911 E stock GONE.......: 84 911 Estock 2015 E stock national champion Close Motorsports - Driver Coaching and Data Equipment sales Website coming soon Old http://retaliatemotorsports.blogspot.com/ |
#2
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So what's your opinion on VBOX vs AIM
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Ryan (Wahooooo....) '19 991 GT3 RS Weissach '08 997 PCA H class '89 930 Targa '18 F150 Raptor '16 991 GT3 RS '18 991 GT2 RS '16 AMG GT S '10 997 GT3 RS '07 997 GT3 '09 Aston Martin DBS '96 993 H Class '14 F150 Raptor |
#3
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I try to get this back on track (pun intended) since I figure Ryan's comment sounds like what we would have classified under FUD responses.
There was an AIM dash and Smartycam on the 993 race car. The dash was great, but the best thing about it was the brake pressure sensor and G-sum that I had installed and programmed. It really allowed me to work on braking, and transitioning brake/throttle. I would say that unloading the data and learning to analyze would require efforts which I admit I lacked greatly, but when I hired coaches to talk me through the data (was not cheap), it was very helpful. So hiring someone who can teach you what to look for with AIM is essential, especially if you are not a tech geek. We like to have a data system for the GT3. The problem is that it is not a full track/race car, so no dash which is why I have been thinking about Vbox based on what I hear about its simplicity. I guess we need to have you bring another one to demo in the car along with you showing us how to look at things after sessions. That said, I do think there is something to be said about looking at the squiggly lines which I do not know if VBox offers. So question is, does it? Also, I think an overview of price/function of various systems might be helpful for those considering a system.
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Nader There are 3 sides to every story. Mine, yours, and the truth. 91 944 S2 - Mine, Sold 7? 914-6 Vintage racer - Mine 93 964 - Not mine 95 993 - Hers - Sold and will be missed 04 GT3 - ours? Doing double duties at DE, anyway 06 987 - Hers - plan to let son use for DE - My DIY A few others |
#4
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VBox offers that, though I don't know which system has more or which is better. I've only used the VBox (and Harry's).
One of the first things I discovered when looking at the data was that I was letting off the brake slightly when heel-toeing. I couldn't feel it, but every lap going into turn 1 at VIR, you could see steady deceleration with two small upward spikes corresponding to when I downshifted from fifth to fourth to third. Admittedly, I don't look at the graphs much. I mainly look at the video with overlays (which VBox does automatically) after a session and watch my min corner speeds. There are a couple corners I have been working on forever and the graphs aren't going to tell me what I already know (overbraking). So I think I went faster, check the min speeds, and nope, same as always... Chicken.
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Aaron 1993 964 2004 GT3 2017 M3 |
#5
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Quote:
I learned that when 100% braking pressure is required, its better to use the old-skool method, where you rotate your foot, so that you're literally "standing" on the brake pedal with the ball of your foot, and then moving you're heel up & down on the throttle to blip. This classic video shows both methods being used:
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- Tony P. Currently - 1984 944 SP2 racer - 1977 911 KM Special vintage racer - 2012 Cayman R (also the wife's) - 2000 Boxster S (now mine) - 1995 993 (garage queen) - 2007 Cayman S (wife's track beast) - 2017 F350 (tow monster) - 2018 Jeep Wrangler Gone but not forgotten - 1989 944S2 - 1979 RX7 - 1986 944 - 1991 944S2 (in car heaven...) - 2001 Chevy Suburban 2500 (FIL's beast now) |
#6
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So happy this was your #1 because I've been meaning to ask you about your return policy.
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_______ Brian '71 T '72 E '80 Weissach SC '94 C2 '05 996 GT3 CUP '09 White Winged Cayman S (Hers, all hers!) '11 GTS/C4S Donuts '15 Boxster S #Blubyu |
#7
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Quote:
Always liked that video.....love the loafers!
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Ken 2023 Audi Q7 Daily Driver Considering next Porsche 1990 964, Red, Number 692 (Misty) sold 2010 Trailex (Dusty) sold 2003 996, (Speedy) Grey sold Life is short; just drive....... (boat, bike, etc.) |
#8
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Also, FWIW, with respect to data acquisition and subsequent analysis.....I haven't been using it as much as I should lately. But when I was racing more often in my 944Cup, I did enjoy looking at the data from my now clunky, but really good back in its heyday, RaceTechnology system data. I was able to identify lags in braking and throttle application, to try and become more efficient. You can also use the data to analyze and compare different approaches through a corner to improve your times. But without simultaneous video, this can be really difficult.
One feature I really like, and I think most systems still utilize today, is the "theoretical best" lap time you could derive from multiple sessions of data. The software assembles all your "best" segments into a single lap time. This allowed me to compare with my actual lap times, to better appreciate working for improvements. When your "theoretical best" is 2 seconds less than your single best lap time, you need to study the segment differences, to identify where you can try to eliminate mistakes and inefficiencies, and become more consistent. When your TB is within 1/2 second of your best lap times, then you know you're doing something right. Of course.....when your lap times are as slow as mine.....then you have to work everywhere.
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- Tony P. Currently - 1984 944 SP2 racer - 1977 911 KM Special vintage racer - 2012 Cayman R (also the wife's) - 2000 Boxster S (now mine) - 1995 993 (garage queen) - 2007 Cayman S (wife's track beast) - 2017 F350 (tow monster) - 2018 Jeep Wrangler Gone but not forgotten - 1989 944S2 - 1979 RX7 - 1986 944 - 1991 944S2 (in car heaven...) - 2001 Chevy Suburban 2500 (FIL's beast now) |
#9
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I've found it really hard to learn how to analyze the data. I read the Squiggly Lines book and, for me, it was pretty useless. I'm not a technical person. There are some useful videos out there, but I haven't found a good course. Peter Krause told me at VIR last year that he and Ross Bentley are working on a seminar/video. I love the ease of the VBox video overlay and the predictive lap timer in the car, but I have to learn how to understand the data. A one-day (or several hours) course from basics to advanced data reading would be perfect.
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Lara ___________ 2009 Cayman S x 2 PCA Potomac Chief Driver Ambassador #21 (Ladybug) and #28 (Bumblebee) |
#10
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Quote:
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Ken 2023 Audi Q7 Daily Driver Considering next Porsche 1990 964, Red, Number 692 (Misty) sold 2010 Trailex (Dusty) sold 2003 996, (Speedy) Grey sold Life is short; just drive....... (boat, bike, etc.) |
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