[Landjet]

I know everyone keeps saying that but on my car the rear is more planted and steady with the stiffer rear setting. Actually it is in the same setting as the front. Someone else may hate the way my car feels. Mike's recommendation was a stiffer setting up front than the rear. Made the rear shift weight around in a scary way for me. I was always backing off in the corners when it was like that.

[Lupin..the..3rd]

Originally Posted by Landjet

I know everyone keeps saying that but on my car the rear is more planted and steady with the stiffer rear setting. Actually it is in the same setting as the front. Someone else may hate the way my car feels. Mike's recommendation was a stiffer setting up front than the rear. Made the rear shift weight around in a scary way for me. I was always backing off in the corners when it was like that.

Stop saying "on my car" because unless it has been in an accident, or the alignment is off, there is nothing unique about the handling of your car vs. anyone elses. The back end of a 911 is *supposed* to rotate around the corner. That's how these cars work. If stiffening the rear bar made the car "feel more planted" to you, either you're driving it wrong, or you're describing it wrong. It has nothing to do with personal preference.

[BlackTalon]

yeah -- seems like there may be confusion about whether the rear bar was 'stiffened' vs 'loosened'. If it truely was stiffened, that would make the rear of the car looser, and increase oversteer/ decrease understeer.

So maybe what feels better is less body roll in the back due to the stiffer bar, even though it results in more 'sliding around'...

This keeps getting back to the lack of info in the original post -- please describe in more detail how the instability manifests itself to you, and under what conditions.

[roundel]

I think we have covered this lingo issue before. Loose to Larry means less roll. Since he is below the handling envelope of the car, he does not understand that loose is really a NASCAR term for "likes to oversteer." Until Larry develops car control, the concepts of "loose" and "tight" as commonly used when describing handling balance are just descriptions that have vague meanings.

[VaSteve]

If we're talking about body roll, nobody with a modern Porsche has any real context! To see real body roll, watch the new torsion bar 911 owners in the green group wallow through Turn 10. Or, my old car before I sold it 8)

[HoodPin]

Larry,
Have you ever had anyone else drive your car? If not, you should really consider having someone familiar with the TT, like Dr. John or Mike L., take you around for a session.

There's only so much that can be conveyed in print. And only somewhat more from someone in the right seat giving tutelage. But riding as passenger with someone with genuine credentials can be very insipiring and educational.

[BlackTalon]

Originally Posted by Landjet

I know everyone keeps saying that but on my car the rear is more planted and steady with the stiffer rear setting. Actually it is in the same setting as the front. Someone else may hate the way my car feels. Mike's recommendation was a stiffer setting up front than the rear. Made the rear shift weight around in a scary way for me. I was always backing off in the corners when it was like that.

Mike was helping you dial in more understeer with that recommendation. You actually dialed in more oversteer, which will could result in the back end coming around on you at some point when you may not be ready to deal with the consequences. Are you sure you 'stiffened' the back, and did not actually loosen?

Also, forget anything about rear bar setting versus front. Having both 'in the middle' does not mean the car will be neutral -- bar diameters and geometry, and well a drop link geometery, are not the same between the bars. In fact, I made my Targa more neutral by almost fully softening the rear bar and stiffening the front. When both were 'in the middle', it had serious corner-entry oversteer (and I could not get on the gas in the turns); now it has mild understeer, and I can hammer it as I near the apex -- the car plants beautifully!

[rs911t]

Made the rear shift weight around in a scary way for me.

Larry, have you ever spun that car or slid the backend around in a corner? What George is saying could be it. The uncomfortable feeling is the back rolling, not actually oversteering. You may not be driving it to the point to induce oversteer, thus stiffening the rear bar feels better. Could also explain why it feels better with someone in the passenger seat. The CG isn't biased toward the left side of the car.

[Hunter]

All this discussion on loose/tight, stiff and body roll...........I thought there would be good pictures by the end of the thread

[John Clay]

I'm Larry's polar oposite, although that is probably just the difference between his tag line and my life. I put 951 sways on th fofo when I first got it and haven't touched it since. The fofo is easy to drive.

Then I autocrossed the boxster for a season. That darn thing seemed to want to spin at turn in all the time. Didn't even dawn on me to change anything in the car. I turned the wheel, then pedaled it the best I could to keep the back end in line. I wish I was in tune with the car enough to notice that it only handled like that on left handers though.

Alignment was all out of wack, and it took having a talented drover with a similar car drive it before I realized the car had an issue. It will be interesting to see what the differences are without the rear toe in/out setting I had been runniing.