[Marc A]

Charlie:

You can time my cams anytime. That is an outstanding result given the variables involved.

Next stop . . . engine lift off (or up in our case).

[Charlie Stylianos]

Update:

Richard got me thinking earlier today and tonight I checked the cam timing again, and to my dismay both banks were off by.007" I checked and rechecked and sure enough they were indeed off by that much. I couldnt leave them like that so I hopped back on the cam timing train.

The only difference between my last check and tonights check was during my inital timing I had a mechanical tensioner on the right bank and vise grips on the left bank tensioning the chains. Once I thought the timing was good, I removed those and replaced them with the hydraulic tensioners.

The chains do need to be tensioned on both side while timing but they also need to be tensioned the same to get an acurate reading, makes sense to me, but didnt realize how important this step is. Thre really is no stopping point to where the timing will stop changing as you tighten the tension on the chains, just need to get them the same....I did this by feel. I was able to change the timing by .004 just by tightening the mechanical tensioner 1 turn. Anyway, got both sides to what I thought was an equal tension, kept the left side as is and was able to match the right perfectly. It took about 7 tries, but finally got both sides to .076"

I removed the mechanical tensioner and the vise grips and replaced them with the hydraulic tensioners and both sides matched @ .080" (with less tension from the hydraulc tensioners).

So what I thought was impossible, is indeed possible....just need to keep at it.

I dunno Mark....if I keep going back to double check work, it'll be another few months

[Rick Lee]

If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

[Marc A]

Question . . . . did you fill the tensioners with oil?? Just curious.

[Charlie Stylianos]

These are new hydraulic tensioners....

I did the 'prime' routine (pump them while submerged in oil) to get oil in the tensioners, but when they are compressed again (via vise) to fit the pin prior to installation, any oil that was built up inside the tensioner escapes through the relief valve. So they were at one point filled with oil (during the prime), but when installed, they were pretty much oil-less.

[William Miller]

Charlie, last week when we met you seemed to be struggling with the setup and your need to make it absolutly precise. (I think that must come from your computer background. In the digital world it's either off or on, right or wrong. There is no room for sloppy-ness or aproximation.

I grew up in the home building business, but learned most on my woodworking skills on my own. When working with wood precision is a relative term. If a joint is a little loose the glue fills in the gap. If tight you can force it a little. If surfaces don't exactly line up you can sand them a little to get them perfect.

In rebuilding my engine I learned that even though thet we are working with metal and the tolerances are tight, with precise tools the small imperfections are measurable. I found this when measuring my pistons and cylinders. They are worn, but not worn out. You may have found this when you measured yours they might not have been perfect. The little spec. book even gives the manufacturing tollerances because they exist even in new parts. That's also why they have weight groups for pistons and rods. The good thing, I suspect, Is that the allowable tolerances in a porsche are probably much smaller than many others. (I wonder.)

I have a neighbor who is in the biotech feild. He asked me how I measured my parts. I told him with the dial bore gauge and micrometer.
He then mentioned that they had a machine shop in his building that they used to make and fix equiptment they use in their reaserch. They have a machine that takes a digital image (I can't remember exactly how it does this) of parts and then can measure them digitally. I recall that it was much more precise than a micrometer.

Can you imagine? I didn't take him up on his offer for a few reasons. First I didn't really want to know how bad my cylinders were worn (Because I can't afford to replace them at the moment.) Second I don't want to mess up his shop. Third, If I started with measuring the P & C's I wouldn't know where to stop. Rods, Heads, Crank, Case.

In any case, I'm sure as technology continues to improve, measurement and manufacturing tollerances will be measured with more spaces to the right of the decimal point. They can do a lot more now than in the 80's when our cars were built.

I think you have done an amazing job with your quest for perfection. I don't think you will get it any better. You have probabaly done a better job than 95% of the people that rebuild these engines on a regular basis.
I think you have come frome novice to expert in a week. You can probably write another chapter for Waynes book. At least a few paragraphs.

You have beten that horse to death! Great Job! We will all learn from your experience!


You have me rethinking how I timed the cams in my engine. I was very satisfied with my results until you posted this. Maybe it did go too easy?

Anyway, I'm too anxeous to get my engine back in to double check. My clutch plate should show up today. I almost had the engine it in late Friday night, just might get it back in tonight.

It would be in, but I was having trouble getting it to line up with the transmission. When I finally got it to mate up I couldn't tell if the clutch fork was engaged.
It was about 1-2am so I gave up.

I know you guy's have droped and lifted a few engines.
I bought the ATV jack based on what I have read on the board.
It is so stable it's hard to wiggle the engine arround to get it to mate up.
I'm thinking I have the ass end of the car up too high.
The front wheels are on the ground.
I sort of remember having the front on jack stands when I removed the engine. It came out so easy that I really didn't pay attention to how I had things set up. Lastly, which hole do you look in to see the clutch fork maying with the release bearing? I found I think 3 holes. Should I take off the starter. One thing I know I didn't uncouple the shifter. I read later that it should be done. Will the back of the transmission hang down farther if I do?

[Charlie Stylianos]

Bill,

Thanks for the accolades. I don't know if my strive for perfection comes from my engineering/computer background or my mild OCD, but the truth is I want to make sure its right as I definitely don't want to be doing this again anytime in the near future.

I've never tried/seen mating the engine back up with the tranny installed in the car, although I've heard it is quite tricky to get the engine lined up perfectly to slide it onto the tranny. You may have better luck and possibly save some time by removing the tranny, bolting it onto the engine and lifting the engine/tranny back into the car as a unit.

[William Miller]

Just spoke to my wife. The clutch plate and bearing arrived.

Looks like I'll figure out the installation and maiting process tonight.
I know that with the right setup it will go smoothly. It might take a little time to perfect it. I'll have time tonight and get started before 1am when my mind is clearer.

I'll pass on what I figure out.
I searched a little on PP BBS. I posted the question there as well.
I found one post that recommendation to lift the car parellel to the ground indtead of ass up.

I found another one that removed the engine with the car only lifted slightly.

I know the back of the engine needs to be lowered about a foot for the fan to clear the frame. I know the trans will cock down at that angle because that's how I got it out. The trick I think will be to hold the trans down and the front of the engine up at the same angle so they will meet parellel.
The other night I held the trans down by jambing a 2X6 between the top of the trans and the foreward bulkhead.

Good news is that you'll know the secret by the time you get there!

On another note:
I put SSI's on the engine. I got the two oil lines with it. The cross over now bends under the flywheel and extends out the right side twards the front of the motor just under the oil cooler. I haven't confirmed this, but I think the other pipe that came with it extends this line to the external thermostat which is located in the wheel well in front of the right rear wheel. (I think this new pipe is just shorter than the old).

It wasn't easy getting the one joint apart on the old lines. The connection to the external oil cooler is in a tight spot. Has anybody done this before.
I got the old pipes apart with a pipe wrench (With a pipe stuck on the end for leverage.) I counterheld the other fitting with a huge adjustable wrench. Do I need the right tools for the other connection? Anybody want to share them?

I've herd/read (I think) the metal (Aluminum?) on the t-stat get's brittle and often breaks the nipple off when you remove the pipe.

[Charlie Stylianos]

Yep....the crossover pipe for the SSI conversion does lead over to the passenger side @ about mid oil cooler lever, then gets bolted to the sheet metal. Unfortunately, the flexible line that connects to this is the rearward line on the external thermostat....so to get to this line, the frontward line needs to come off the thermostat as well if you dont want to drop the whole external oil line/trombone assy from the car. Mine lines need to come out prior to break-in as there is still synthetic oil in them.

I have the special wrenches if you need to borrow......a large cresent will work also.

Soaking the fittings w/ PB Blaster will help. Soaked mine for a few days, they came off like butter.

[Jase007]

Charlie:

You are a lucky man.... "came off like butter". I have kicked, sworn, screamed, stripped and broken a few lines when trying to "gorilla" them off over the years.... even with PB blaster.

Sometimes, this "task" ranks right up there with taking heat exchangers off that have been on there for 27 +/- years.

Jason