[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by WHS3

As a new guy to DE, but a former instructor, the 4 shorter sessions will provide the most learning and safest conditions, especially for the Green/Blue groups. As Kurt said, most brains will go to mush after 20 min anyway.

After my first day in Green last March, I was so tired I couldn't think straight through dinner. I actually found myself pitting early a couple of times because of information overload. It was certainly different by the fall at VIR, maybe because there is a nice breather zone on the back straight, maybe because the track is so long (not something occurring every second) I didn't have quite the same problem. It will be interesting to compare this season to last.

[VaSteve]

Ok, a half baked counter-point to Dave }{'s, um, "solution":


Maybe they should do away with Red all together....Let the guys with the purpose built racecars, cup cars and other super non-street legal stuff have their own day/event/join NASA.

If the only real difference between red and black is car makeup and not driver talent they should be able to run a combined black/red session without the racecars (to make the pack smaller).

A lot of marque-only clubs won't let you run non-street legal cars in the events. PCA is different because Porsches lend themselves to being actual racecars. The goals as stated on the website:

Originally Posted by PCA Potomac site

The goals in DE are 1) to be safe, 2) to have fun, and 3) to learn about driving your Porsche fast. And learn you will. Threshold braking, cornering, “the line”, “heel and toe” and vehicle dynamics are among the topics taught, both on the track and in classroom sessions taught by fellow Porsche owners and expert drivers.

Emphasis added. No where in there does it say "cheap track time to test and tune the racecar". Yeah, we all like seeing the fire breathing racecars. Yeah, some of those guys are the instructors we need to progress. Yes, the subsidize the program for the rest of us (more drivers to spread the cost over).

Maybe I'm being idealistic or crotchety, but many of the guys that are out there dropping mad cash in the cup cars and packing it in at 12:30 probably don't realize (or forgot) what it's like for us guys lower on the food chain trying to build up our seat time in a cost effective manner. I'll betcha that those guys aren't reading the thread here or on Porsche Talk either.

It's a tough balancing act for everyone's interest. Oh, many PCA members have other sporty/sports cars. Why can other regions safely integrate those onto the track but ours can't? I figure it would be fun to run our other cars up against each other sometime. The physics are the same.... Don't other regions even allow the Cayenne on track?

[BlackTalon]

No matter how you slice it, it is doubtful there will ever be more then 80 minutes of track time in a Potomac event. NASA and Audi Club don't provide any more time then that, either. Race cars are not going away -- many of the drivers are instructors. And heck, they have just as much right as the rest of us to be out there. It really comes down to if you prefer your 80 minutes in 3 sessions or 4.

[TD in DC]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

No matter how you slice it, it is doubtful there will ever be more then 80 minutes of track time in a Potomac event. NASA and Audi Club don't provide any more time then that, either. Race cars are not going away -- many of the drivers are instructors. And heck, they have just as much right as the rest of us to be out there. It really comes down to if you prefer your 80 minutes in 3 sessions or 4.

I think the main issue is how efficiently you use the time that is available. Specifically, I think we could reduce or eliminate the down time between run sessions. That is the only way to increase overall track time if you are limited by the track to start/finish times. I also prefer dividing the time into 4 runs rather than three.

[Jazzbass]

Originally Posted by Kurt Mickelwait

Sunday is 25 X 3 = 75... What was discussed and I thought agreed to was a min of 20X4 =80. Its not the total track time but the good track time and also with 3 a day you sit around all day. Boooooring! If there is an on track problem you are out a 3rd of the day. Too much sitting around.

This sums up my feelings exactly. I'd much rather prefer 4 20min sessions vs 3 25min ones.

Admin Note: The racing/I'm slow thread hijack has been moved here: http://www.dorkiphus.com/porsche/showthread.php?p=69277. As much as I like the smack talk, I would like to keep this discussion on track.

[MatP]

Originally Posted by Noah

I'll go on record as preferring more short sessions over fewer long sessions. That would be great.

I agree completely.

[BillJ]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

Ok, a half baked counter-point to Dave }{'s, um, "solution":


Maybe they should do away with Red all together....Let the guys with the purpose built racecars, cup cars and other super non-street legal stuff have their own day/event/join NASA.

I could not agree more! At least on the half-baked comment

Quite frankly, the idea that modified cars have no place at DE is crazy. Where do you stop on that slope? Anyone with aftermarket components that take it from stock are considered modified. Not interested in going into the NASA meat grinder, so does that mean I cannot run my car at the event I support as a tech inspector and instructor?

For the record, I would greatly prefer 4 over 3 sessions. It keeps everyone involved, reduces downtime, and does not penalize/reward certain run groups for running their two sessions in either the morning or afternoon. Plus if a black flag comes out, you dont lose 1/6th of your event. (2-day).

[Vicegrip]

There might be one or two non instructors in red and black. No one is there to test and tune. Potomac just turned a race group away that wanted to do just that. Please don't think that the Potomac chairs do not care or are disconected from the "regular" folks. That is a common misconception in any group dynamic but not so in this case. The guys running things are drivers to start and have safe driving and fun at the forefront.



I am suprised to see the 3 a day format back. I thiught we drove a jack handle through its slow dull heart last year and killed it.

[Eli]

Originally Posted by Kurt Mickelwait

Please don't think that the Potomac chairs do not care or are disconected from the "regular" folks. That is a common misconception in any group dynamic but not so in this case. The guys running things are drivers to start and have safe driving and fun at the forefront.

Kurt, I agree with you, but only to a certain degree.
For Black or Red drivers who are ultimately deciding on the format, the difference between 3 and 4 sessions is probably insignificant. Instructors can easily jump into any other group to make up lost time, etc.

As already mentioned above, if our run group (white) gets black flagged, it leaves only 2 sessions that day. That's assuming the weather is good, the car's running right, etc...

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by Kurt Mickelwait

There might be one or two non instructors in red and black. No one is there to test and tune. Potomac just turned a race group away that wanted to do just that. Please don't think that the Potomac chairs do not care or are disconected from the "regular" folks. That is a common misconception in any group dynamic but not so in this case. The guys running things are drivers to start and have safe driving and fun at the forefront.

Again, it was a half baked idea. Since I don't know all the instructors (and certainly don't match up driver of X car with Y student), it came off perhaps the wrong way.

And to factor in Noah's point...it was a Red driver that f'ed up the whole schedule for everyone when going out in the pouring rain last May. No biggie to him I'm sure.

It's certainly not too late in the season to go to 4 a day. It's not too late in the week to do it this weekend. Just requires reprinting the sheets - we all have to show up for grid tech at the same time.... all of us