[Don Wohlfarth]

Originally Posted by Kurt Mickelwait

PCA need bylaws and a charter. Dorkiphus does not need a charter because Dorki don’t (yet ) do things on the scale that PCA does. Potomac alone runs a DE program that extends well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars and is planned out years in advance.

If you think about it, Dorkiphus and PCA are the same thing at different ages.

I see PCA as merely Dorkiphus having grown to a much larger scale via past success and the passage of time.

Potomac is a group of volunteers, just like Dorkiphus, only a little larger. With the number and variety of events that Potomac promotes there has to have some struture and accountability for the sums of money involved.
Dorkiphus is a free flowing web site built around a group of DIY's. Once upon a time Potomac's Porsche Talk was pretty much the same thing.
There was a off topic forum called Scream and Shout and any topic was fair game. The forum was clearly labeled that you entered at your own risk. "A few" Potomac members objected to the forum and felt that it put PCA at odds with Porsche but more importantly their kids could find vulgar words and topics that the parents didn't want to discuss over the dinner table. 8) (This is ignoring the fact that little Johnny could type in porn on a search engine and promote some real interesting family values at the dinner table.) Scream and Shout was closed down by the webmeister without a word.
This link is not from Scream and Shout but is still pretty funny. You may recognize some of the names.
http://www.pcapotomac.org/cgi-bin/ul...=000060#000003

[Spike]

Kurt, I'm brand new to the entire Porsche World, so to speak. I'm grateful to the PCA for sponsoring the HPDC's, the DE's and the local events like the Avanel Show. I also appreciate the magazine if only due to the
advertising for sources of parts / classifieds.

I suspect without PCA, there might be a lot less for us Dorki to do, since
there might not be any organized DE's, etc. for us to modify our
cars to participate in. If there were no DE's and HPDC's, etc. there
might be a lot less local knowledge and energy around suspension,
brakes, bars, etc. Also, without the comraderie of the track, etc. the
Dorki friendships might be harder to forge and to maintain.

I'm staying away from any commentary on politics and policies, etc.
because I have no experience at all. My only experience with PCA
policy, etc. is as a member of the DE morning and noon meetings.

I still find the Dorki community to be more 'tangible' and something
I can relate to more. I mean, I know Dorki's, I can hang out with
Dorki's, I can discuss Porsche things with Dorki's, I can be laughed
at by Dorki's.

I guess I see Dorki's as more a community and PCA as more of
an organization.

I am glad to be able to participate in both groups.

Thanks.

[Parenn911]

Well said Emery!!!

[bettyc]

Emery's got it right. PCAP is a city, Dorki is a town. I've been a member of PCA for 13 years now and in that time have been newsletter editor, membership chair, vice president, president, past president and helped out with club race a year or two or three or four. Oh, right now I'm the commercial advertising editor for the newsletter. If I can be that involved with PCAP, how politically correct can they be? And yes I do detest HOAs.

I think the genesis of the "conversation" is that there is a large group of P car owners on the Dorki site and PCAP wants to make sure that they aren't missing something or not providing something that would be beneficial to all pcar owners not just Dorkis. Believe it or not, they actively look outside of PCAP to see what is happening in the fun car world. For instance PCAP has been working with the MB club to help energize their DE program and establish a better instructor training program. The benefit? More de events for pcar owners to attend.

PCAP has a lot to offer to any Porsche owner.

[DinFtown]

Originally Posted by bettyc

Emery's got it right. PCAP is a city, Dorki is a town.

I am a very busy person, I have a restaurant, a second full time job, a son, a Ex-wife, and the brakes I do for everyone... I don't lean one way or the other on the PCA, I really don't know that much about it, but I doubt I would benefit from being a member(I just don't have the time). I like this "town"(Dorki) because I'd rather be a 1 of 800 member, then a 1 of 3000 or whatever. I'm here to help, and make friends with a common love for Porsche. A local gathering to hangout and have dinner or whatever makes me happy, I don't need a track, or a parade or whatever. Its cool they do things like that. I Just am unwilling to buy the cow, for a glass of milk. I'd be more willing to say PCAP is a gated community, and us doki's are a small friendly town free to come and go as you please.

Just my two... Don't jump on me for it.....

[Vicegrip]

Don, you gots some explaining to do on that thread! Man there were some truly funny threads. We shuda saved some of the “interesting” threads before the hammer fell.

Less anyone gets me wrong I am not defending PCA. I don't think it needs defending. I think PCA is what it is. I am interested in what PCA and non PCA folks think about Potomac and why. Sometimes a conversation is just a conversation. Add a bar and some drinks.

Betty very true Dorki is a smaller, faster moving group, a town so to speak. I have also found that there are towns within the city of PCA. I have been doing the same kind of stuff I do with fellow Dorki within PCA well before the Dorki became an entity. Bill’s Yellow Fellow build was a Potomac thing. Even as Bill and I are both Dorki it would have happened regardless of this site and no one would have known. I have 2 nights this week of shop time for folks that are PCA that are under the radar.
You want to find some wrenches look under the club race community rock. Some of the build work is stunning in though and execution and is done by the drivers and friends. Motors get dropped, rebuilt and installed all the time but the organizing is more phone calls and emails and not a thread enhanced fat pill fest on a Sat. Not nearly as much fun for all but my point is that Dorki did not invent communal DYI and there are far more skilled DIY wrenches in Potomac that the Dorki collective might know. What I think is different about the Dorki is the percentage and how public the work is. Potomac has a bunch more wrenches but you might need to be a part of the organization for a while to see them and become a part of it. Not a click thing, they are merely diluted in with all the other types of P car folks.
Before the hammer fell on P talk the questions and volume was similar to Dorkiphus but the list of contributors home locations was global. What tires fit, brakes, susp upgrades, car makes a bad sound what is it, where to get parts what shops are good? Kinda makes you miss Vlad and the U boat commander…Na...We got Pari and RL.

[Chopper Dropper]

Right on Kurt, miss that scream and shout, now which one is Pari, Vlad,er i mean Vicki or Herr UBoat commander./
Dirk

[Vicegrip]

Vlad/Vicky all the way!

[Rick Lee]

Ok, I'll bite.

"What do any Dorki like about PCA? What do any Dorki dislike and why?"

I don't do much besides the tech sessions and a few DE's. But I really, really look forward to each tech session. My 993 was aligned at Autotherapy yesterday and I would have had a cow when Jack told me that, except that I have gotten to know Roger and his crew there through the tech sessions they hosted over the last 3 yrs. So I trust those guys, even though they are way too far from my house for me to regularly use their services. But PCA Tech has certainly made me familiar with most of the local shops and wrenches and I like that a lot.

I don't share the animosity toward PCA, which is pretty rampant on this BBS, but I do understand it. A few individuals tend to be the face of PCA Potomac and thus can make it look bad to the "uninitiated". I remember seeing some real attitude in the pit and paddock at my first DE and it still tempers my excitement a bit each time I roll past the gates at SP for a DE. Some of those guys haven't been around in a while and the others I've been lucky enough not to have to deal with again. But I honestly fear getting certain instructors, who I know will ruin the experience for me. I've been pretty lucky so far, but it can't go on forever. Abe Lincoln once said something like, "Anyone can overcome adversity. If you want to really test a man's character, give him power." Well, some of those guys scare me. Sort of like when I used to get assigned to work special events on the Hill. The people who wanted the walkie talkies were usually the ones who should not have had them and vise versa. Anyway, I understand PCA's size means there have to be rules and officers and personalities and all. I appreciate those folks who pitch in and don't become part of the elite/attitude clique.

[}{arlequin]

maybe it all comes down to why people join PCA in the first place... some do it b/c they want to meet other people w/ similar cars/interests/hobbies

some do it b/c their friends joined, so they do the same

some do it b/c the dealer told them so (made them aware of it b/c they never knew about PCA)

personally, I do it for track access. I could get plenty of tracktime w/ several different organizations, but it wouldn't be as convenient, and I'd see different people within different clubs, and never really get to know them. That *could* change if other local Porsche owners signed up for the other clubs' events, but right now I don't have to go through that. It's because PCA makes so convenient, accessible, and (semi-)affordable. I don't need to hunt down different clubs, compare and contrast their track schedules etc. PCA makes it easy, for which my lazy butt is grateful. I even get email notices about track time. Can't beat that.

That's what I get out of PCA. It's enough for me so I don't have a need to be involved w/ the club in some other way. Getting on track takes good planning and organization so it's beneficial to go thorugh PCA, but if I want to attend a barbecue, I can do that w/o an organization.