[John Clay]

Signs saying bikes have right to full lane have gone up all over the place in upper MoCo recently. I don't ride much on roads, but it makes sense to me. On most two lane roads there is just not enough margin for error to safely pass a bicycle when there is oncoming traffic or the view of oncoming traffic is limited. Taking up the entire lane forces the car behind the rider to do just that. The rider can control based on what he sees ahead.

But then I can see a driver getting frustrated by a rider taking up the full lane when there is plenty of room for a pass with 3+ feet if the rider just kept to the right (assuming the pavement is good).

[ausgeflippt951]

This is making me want to get back on the bike...haven't ridden since before the move.

Originally Posted by Potomac-Greg

But, consistent with your second point, if it's a hard-core, spandex-clad, Tour de France wanna-be, then they're not going to deviate course nor velocity for anyone. And then there are the packs of spandex-clad-riders .........

I've never understood this phenomenon myself: if you're that serious about riding, why are you doing it during rush hour? Tucson is a hugely bike-friendly town and in college, we would usually get a few TdF lookalikes barreling down the mall during the middle of lunchtime -- wtf? Who thinks this is even sane?

To say nothing of the fact that it can't possibly be fun for the rider, who is busy cone-dodging the whole time.

Originally Posted by Vicegrip

If I am doing 25 in a 25 and the lines next to me are double yellow I am taking the lane. If I can move over so a car can go by without going over the lines I do so.

Heh, I always give a thumbs-up when I see a bicyclist doing the speed limit. Right on.

Originally Posted by Vicegrip

DC s up to its armpits in cars. Clogged roads and shortage of parking. At some point they need to make it easy and safe for people to ride around. No cost to taxpayers such as with metro. No buses on the roads just people moving around quietly and without bad impact on the infrastructure or enviroment. not the solution for everyone but it is a great one for many and can be for many more if it is setup as it is in many other cities.

It is most certainly very dangerous to ride around big cities nowadays. (Interestingly, on a per bicyclist basis, large urban cities actually produce fewer accidents than smaller ones).

There is another group who really irk me: the college kid/hipster/postgraduate/young idiot. Those who bike for fitness are usually not a problem for drivers, by and large: they are out there to get serious and are more often than not aware of the safety issues present. They also tend to abide by traffic laws. The college kid/hipster/post grad idiot, on the other hand, only bikes because he/she doesn't want to take public transportation and does not own a car (which are certainly valid reasons)...but they never bother learning either the rules of the road or how to maintain safety with those around them. They think bicycling is merely a faster means of walking.

You're considered a motorized vehicle. Stop at stoplights, signal before turning, and look around you. [If you're alone, I'm fine with taking liberties...but in a city this is rarely the case.]

When I lived in Boston in grad school, we would all-too-often heard about yet another college kid who was killed either running a red light or turning in front of oncoming traffic.

Originally Posted by vranko

Also Amish families with horse and buggies! Came way to close to taking one out on the drive to Mid-O a few years (Thanks Ed H!)

I once was bicycling on a rural road in Loudon County (probably not so rural anymore). Shoulder was about a half foot wide made up of large gravel/rocks. Dump truck comes barreling down the road. I heard it coming and saw it in my little mirror. Never gave me any space. I decided the safest thing to do was go into the gravel and dive into the ravine next to it. Ended up upside down on top of fairly soft foliage about 5 feet below the road surface. Not hurt at all luckily. What really p*ssed me off was another cyclist road by when it happened. Looked down and laugh and said something in a british accent then road off! Ever since when I hear a male british accent I want to punch the person (Not Aussie Tony K!)

Had a somewhat similar thing happen to me, but was on my motorcycle. A woman ran me off the road and I low-sided in the middle of the road. She leans out of her car to ask, "Are you OK?" and after giving her a thumbs-up to signal that "yes, I am still lucid", she promptly drives away.

[John Clay]

How did post #6821 end up on the fail thread?

[vranko]

^ Good point! That's why I "archived" it in the p-cars and babes thread!

[Vicegrip]

Can we split the bike stuff off onto its own thread? seems there are some bike riders here.

[vranko]

^ Yes please.

[Potomac-Greg]

Originally Posted by Vicegrip

Lately I have been taking the lane on the smaller roads as I can maintain the posted speed limit on almost everyting but hills. If I am doing 25 in a 25 and the lines next to me are double yellow I am taking the lane. If I can move over so a car can go by without going over the lines I do so.

And there's my problem. On level ground I can hold 15-18 MPH, and 12 MPH on gradual hills. I'm too damned slow (fat). I cannot with a clear conscience consume a full lane of traffic chugging my fat azz up a hill at 10 MPH.

And that's the crux of the whole debate. Pedestrians are in conflict with runners, they're both in conflict with recreational bikers, they're all in conflict with serious bikers, and bikers are in conflict with cars -- all because of speed differential. Bikers do need more exclusive riding space.

I just spent a week in Italy (Como/Milan) and the bike riders in the cities are using pedestrian surfaces and roadways interchangeably because as is typical in Italy, there's almost no speed differential between pedestrians and cars!

[Drscope]

It just seems that when I was doing a lot more riding years ago (40 miles every day) everyone on two wheels knew they wouldn’t win an altercation with a motorized vehicle and we stayed out of the way as much as possible. Even though we had the right of way, it wasn’t worth arguing that fact with a 4,000 pound Chevy.

I had my share of front wheels in storm drain grates, being squeezed off the pavement, hit by a deer, run into by a large dog, flew over two cars following impact and on one occasion even physically pushed over by the passenger in a station wagon. But we always figured if we were stupid enough to ride a bicycle in traffic we needed to look out for ourselves.

Now it seems a lot of the cyclists go out of their way to make it difficult for motorized traffic on the roads. They almost bait you to try to take their space away, or intentionally try to keep you behind them for as long as they can. And it’s that perceived attitude that really turns off a lot of car driving folks when it comes to the subject of cyclists.

[Dr K]

Great thread. As many of you know, I've been riding after a >10 year hiatus, prepping for my cancer charity ride. I'm doing a 50-miler on Saturday but have done >40. But this has all been since May, so I still average only 12-13 MPH. I'm trying to ride as much of the 150 miles ahead of time as I can, so I'm familiar with the hills, which means all road riding. I ride VERY carefully and try to signal vehicles to pass when the roads are narrow (mirror is great addition). But I still worry.

On trails, I note people often don't hear/ignore my bell when they have headphones on (very similar bell to Kurt's). Not I try to do roads and be careful.

[jbailey930]

I have in a few thousand W & OD miles in from Reston to Falls Church and out to Leesburg the past couple of years. IMHO, bikes and cars don't mix. I'd love to have the notion you could commute and tour around here like in Amsterdam or French countryside. Drivers just don't pay attention anymore. And there is less and less courtesy. The crossover at Wiehle is an extremely dangerous place and that is a marked path crossing. Fuggedabout me riding the roads around here even with a 3 miles to get to the trail from my home. The consequences are too high. I had a reminder last week. I slowed before passing a mom and her young daughter pedaling up Clark's Gap. I slowed to get thru the turns before passing on a straight but just put my front wheel off and bam I went down. Bruised my hip, elbow and ribs. All at maybe 5 mph. I'd hate for anything worse to happen to anyone