[FrankyV]

Simple logic says that there is more dangerous road behavior than speeding and when a cop sits at the side of the road catching speeders he is not out there patrolling for drunks and other truly dangerous drivers. Of course patrolling the roads is less lucrative than shooting radar. As for speed cameras, they don't even deter you or slow you down in real time like getting pulled over does. A photo ticket results in you slowing down at that spot in the future but that is about all for it's deterrent effect.

I find it hilarious that law enforcement, the insurance industry and the safety nazis all point to the data that says "speed kills". Consider the source: they are the ones that designate speed as a factor in or cause of a particuar accident and they have a financial interest in the establishment and enforcement of speed limits, so of course the data is going to support their case- it's not independently gathered and verified. And consider this- speed can always be designated as a factor in an accident because if you and the other guy were going zero there is no accident.

People have totally lost sight of the fact that our interstate system was designed to be travelled safely at high speed for the cars of the 50's. Cars today are obviously much more capable and safe, so speed limits should be going up not down. And the huge increase in the fatality rate that was predicted when 55 was reapealed has not materialized- less people, in absolute numbers and deaths per a number of miles driven, are killed on the roads today than before, despite a huge increase in the number of cars.

I think better driver education is the key to improved road safety, not speed limit enforcement. That's the German model.

[jbailey930]

So I am of two minds on this topic, one side = we need to make sure our neighborhoods are safe. Brian, PJ and i dirve down Algonkian pkwy where I will regularly get passed by someone in a minivan, crap suv in the right lane as I am cruising in the Turbo in left lane at 50 ish where the "limit" is 45. Those folks are unsafe as you also see them texting or on the phone.

The other side notes on the parkways where 35 is limit like Sunrise, the cops set up at the bottom of the hills.

[Landjet]

Accept it, totalitarianism is being ushered in as we speak.

[KevinOyler]

My understanding is it is $ motivated. The manufacturer places the devices for free in return for a set percentage of the revenue generated for the municipality. The fact that the owner of the car is always held responsible, in spite of who the driver is, makes any basis for a fine legally suspect to me. If innocent until proven guilty still had a basis in the administration of law, these devices wouldn't work.

[joep]

Originally Posted by SkankyFrank

...I find it hilarious that law enforcement, the insurance industry and the safety nazis all point to the data that says "speed kills".
I think better driver education is the key to improved road safety, not speed limit enforcement. That's the German model.

Your forgetting simple physics: F=ma The force of impact increases as mass & ACCELERATION increase. Granted that mass has probably been decreased significantly on ave. but people still see speed as the key factor. Safer cars exist today sure but that's also assuming you hold the other variables constant, but your still increasing the force upon impact as you increase speed.


I agree, improved driver education is the real key.

[FrankyV]

Originally Posted by jbailey930

So I am of two minds on this topic, one side = we need to make sure our neighborhoods are safe. Brian, PJ and i dirve down Algonkian pkwy where I will regularly get passed by someone in a minivan, crap suv in the right lane as I am cruising in the Turbo in left lane at 50 ish where the "limit" is 45. Those folks are unsafe as you also see them texting or on the phone.

The other side notes on the parkways where 35 is limit like Sunrise, the cops set up at the bottom of the hills.

Cruising the left lane is dangerous behavior - stay right except to pass.

[joep]

Originally Posted by SkankyFrank

Cruising the left lane is dangerous behavior - stay right except to pass.

hell yes & x10!

If slower traffic would simply KEEP RIGHT I'd bet 50% of all driver stress would be gone. Let them get the ticket if they want to speed, maybe there really is a fire. Your not a hero for pissing people off who want to be unsafe jerks. Move over.

[Chopper Dropper]

Originally Posted by jbailey930

So I am of two minds on this topic, one side = we need to make sure our neighborhoods are safe. Brian, PJ and i dirve down Algonkian pkwy where I will regularly get passed by someone in a minivan, crap suv in the right lane as I am cruising in the Turbo in left lane at 50 ish where the "limit" is 45. Those folks are unsafe as you also see them texting or on the phone.

The other side notes on the parkways where 35 is limit like Sunrise, the cops set up at the bottom of the hills.

What are you doing cruising at 50 or so IN THE LEFT LANE

[savowood]

Originally Posted by SkankyFrank

I think better driver education is the key to improved road safety, not speed limit enforcement. That's the German model.

I see you've never lived in Germany.

We are quite well trained. Many people don't pass their test the first time, and it's an expensive failure. At least when I went through it, we had to pay for the class again if we failed the test.

The biggest difference between the US and Germany with the speed cameras is, the German government doesn't pretend it's about safety. it's clearly a revenue generation, and with the MWSt and Einkommensteuer as high as they are, there's a lot of complaining going on when you get caught.

I've been zapped by a "Blitz Kamera" doing well over the 120 limit on A7 heading home to Hannover from working in Hamburg. Somehow, that ticket never got to me. When I was in the Army though, I saw quite a few tickets come in, as they came through my office before they went to the soldier. Polizei Hessen used to set up a camera on the road to the post and catch people on a very regular basis going 90 or more in the 70 zone.

The point, and I think this is what you were trying to say, is that in Germany it's all about education, and the revenue stream is not shrouded with the claim of safety.

[HateDCRoads]

I think it is primarily about revenue generation, but not always. I think it depends on the example:

1) Speed cameras. I am actually OK with these in towns, in front of schools, etc., where you really need the reaction time if some kid runs out into the street. These cameras really do work in terms of slowing people down, however, the municipality, gov't, and the private contractor which gets a share of the fines are really more focused on the revenue, as evidenced by the fact that the cameras tend be installed in places where they generate more tickets (e.g., rural Montgomery Country) than where speed safety is critical (in front of schools).

2) Red Light cameras. Same argument as above, but at least in DC, this is 100% about revenue. Studies have conclusively shown that the way to reduce red-light running is to lengthen the yellow/caution period. DC has refused to to do this, choosing instead to install cameras, so I think you can draw your own conclusions.

3) Radar detectors. I have thought about why states would ban them, and the only answer is revenue. If the goal of speed enforcement is to slow people down, than detectors actually do this elegantly - every time a cop is sitting up ahead running radar, everyone with a detector slows down. So the only logic for banning them is that they reduce revenue.

4) Traditional Speed Traps. 100% about revenue and this is blatantly obvious. Hiding the patrol car so you can't see it until you are on top of it means that, since no one sees the car, no one slows down. But it means that you get to write lots of tickets ($$).

Net, pretty obvious that speed enforcement is primarily about revenue. If it wasn't, you would have the troopers patrol up and down the highway, since most people behave themselves when there is an officer in the next lane.

I don't really mind the fines that much, but I do think the points system is silly. In DC, 15 over is five points, not wearing your seatbelt is 2 points, and blatantly running a stop sign is 3 points. I would think that speeding should be 1 point, stop sign should be 5 points, and seatbelt should be no points. Go figure.