[Rick Lee]

Todd, the INS (now called ICE) is less of a threat than my grandmother, even when she isn't driving.

Cliff, I was thinking the same thing and the guy was really a fool for walking in front of me. But my Mazda was so close to me and with remote entry nowadays, there just wasn't any reason to escalate things or take pre-emptive measures. Had I deemed the threat imminent and unavoidable, I would have done what needed to be done. But I was able to get into my car quickly without even running. I was sure, while driving to the first cop shop, that an officer would just take me with him in his car to find the guys. Silly me. Still, in NJ the victim is the perp, so escalating things would have probably gotten me into more trouble than my mom (a court mediator there) could have gotten me out of.

At a wedding in NJ a few years ago I was seated at a table with a lot of local cops. Throughout the dinner they were all swapping stories about shooting and beating up bad guys. So I got the feeling they were the kind of guys who would turn a blind eye to a citizen taking out the garbage, when feeling threatened by a thug. But some of the stories I've read recently have got me too scared to even bring a disassembled gun into the state to show my dad my latest toy.

[Cliff Claven]

Since you weren't starring in a movie at the time, you did the right thing. NJ may well be one of those states where even though you may be threatened with deadly force you have to retreat if there is anyway possible to do so. In some states, this rule even applies in your own home. Even though bad guys are coming in the front door, you can't stand your ground if there is any way you can get out the back door. But here, you weren't even in your home, but on a public bus, and a slippery prosecutor would suggest that you began the confrontation by loudly and rudely accosting these poor guys, and would call a busload of witnesses. You're always better off not being the hero when frankly there is nothing to gain by it and everything to lose, unless of course you're in an action movie.

[TD in DC]

Originally Posted by Cliff Claven

Since you weren't starring in a movie at the time, you did the right thing. NJ may well be one of those states where even though you may be threatened with deadly force you have to retreat if there is anyway possible to do so. In some states, this rule even applies in your own home. Even though bad guys are coming in the front door, you can't stand your ground if there is any way you can get out the back door. But here, you weren't even in your home, but on a public bus, and a slippery prosecutor would suggest that you began the confrontation by loudly and rudely accosting these poor guys, and would call a busload of witnesses. You're always better off not being the hero when frankly there is nothing to gain by it and everything to lose, unless of course you're in an action movie.

Chuck Norris allows you to live because you are a wuss, intelligent and yuppie, but a wuss nonetheless.

[TD in DC]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Todd, the INS (now called ICE) is less of a threat than my grandmother, even when she isn't driving.

that's just not true. All you would have had to say is something about "protests."

How do I know? I have never confessed it before, but yes, I am an illegal. I am sick to death of hiding my proud Mexican heritage. I am surprised you guys have never guessed it before.

[Trak Ratt]

Originally Posted by TD in DC

I am an illegal. I am sick to death of hiding my proud Mexican heritage. I am surprised you guys have never guessed it before.

Mexican I thought you were from Panama. You know, the land of the big ditch. Make up your mind; I’m trying to make arrangements for your ticket home

Oh, I almost forgot, my uncle says you can’t take your cars so… Dibs on everything except the SUV. But I’ll make sure VASteve gets a crack at it..

[TD in DC]

Originally Posted by david riley

Mexican I thought you were from Panama. You know, the land of the big ditch. Make up your mind; I’m trying to make arrangements for your ticket home

Oh, I almost forgot, my uncle says you can’t take your cars so… Dibs on everything except the SUV. But I’ll make sure VASteve gets a crack at it..

My wife is Panamanian, but she is legal.

I would gladly return to the land of my heritage if you would be so stupid as to take my cars from me. Bearings, we don't need no steeeeeeennnkiiiiinnggg bearings.

[Rick V]

Glad everything worked out well. You should have told the cops that while these guys were busy trying to lean on you they dropped thier dougnuts and kicked them out of the way!.
Might be time to invest in one of those fiberglass daggers. Very deadly and since no metal they can be carried on mass transit. CS teargass is readily availlable in most gun shops and police supply companys.
As for what I would have done I would have opened up a 55gal. drum of whoop ass, followed by a flurry of mighty backhands. Then I would have gotten realy violent. Hidden tiger, crouching Rick!
I ain't the badest guy around but I'll do until he gets here!



I would have done it your way with one exception, I keep a gun in the car even in NY.

[88carrera]

Nothing defuses a tense situation better than a quality semi-automatic handgun.

[Rick Lee]

Believe me, I have plenty of high-quality semi-auto handguns. But they were all in VA. Sure felt good to have the tricked out P229 in my vest when I went out last night.

I'm thinking of starting to carry my SIG Pro 2340 in .357 when I'm in non-CCW states. I only have about $350 into it, so having it confiscated wouldn't be the end of the world. And I doubt I'd ever get prosecuted for using it to defend myself. My mom used to work for our county prosector in NJ and told me a few horror storied about out-of-staters getting their guns taken. But NJ never bothered to prosecute them.

[OldTee]

Next time use some of your wealth. Fly to Newark and take a taxi home! Bus...... not anymore! This world has changed, big time.
ARF