[Vicegrip]

Motorshister failed long ago, just like many of their motors.

[matt de maria]

35 seems about right. There are 2 ways to do an engine, the motormeister way and the full way with new parts. The full way is very expensive and obviously will total out many ars including the water cooled ones. My automotive machinist has been amazed on what you can get away with on a hacked engine. Many rebuilt engines are lucky they don't puke right away.
I have seen 3 fresh (less than 100 miles) engines out of Baltimore that were done. 2 had very seized pistons and 1 had bad valves. Each one cost less than 20K.
In my experience 60K is the break point for parts exceeding the Porsche wear limits. Piston and cylinders will fail in one or more of the 5 categories of measurements. Valve guides don't last beyond 60K. Valves have about a .001" wear limit. It goes on and on.
This is complicated by the fact that undersize rod bearings are NLA. Undersize nose bearings are NLA. Case bores do wear especially on the non counterbalanced cranks. Most of the high mileage cases have to be linebored to standard (ollies)..
Line bored bearings for the 6 cyl haven't been available for 15 years.
At 100K I can give you the standard cook book list of what you will need to replace at minimum. About 95% of the moving parts are worn out.
You have to be very careful in using used parts. Most people aren't. I believe there should be a dialog between the rebuilder and the customer. The customer should be aware of the choices to be made while rebuilding. Any used parts are obviously not going to have the same mileage left on them as new parts. How frequent do you want to rebuild?
Some new parts you have to be wary of. I had a 914/6 engine with 3K on a fresh rebuild. The new nikasil bores (L&N) seized.
Most people have the walmart mentality. Cost. They are ignorant of all other aspects This is why MOTORMEISTER lasted so long.

[jhsmith]

Perhaps it works out best to develop a long term relationship with a shop convenient to you and trust what they recommend. You can get recommendations from people on Dorkiphus as to who they trust depending on location. Sometimes that involves trailering the car to a barn in the middle of nowhere. My last 911 track car engine was rebuilt by a 70 year old guy in a barn in the middle of nowhere. Now he's likely retired but there are lots of good recommendations you can get from folks on this forum.

[BlackTalon]

Originally Posted by jhsmith

Perhaps it works out best to develop a long term relationship with a shop convenient to you and trust what they recommend. You can get recommendations from people on Dorkiphus as to who they trust depending on location. Sometimes that involves trailering the car to a barn in the middle of nowhere. My last 911 track car engine was rebuilt by a 70 year old guy in a barn in the middle of nowhere. Now he's likely retired but there are lots of good recommendations you can get from folks on this forum.

That definitely helps with the labor costs, but parts costs are parts costs.

[racer]

Matt - Thanks for taking the time to share a full explanation as to why things just cost more now.

I would also submit that some of the challenge with the aircooled cars in general is their age. imho their is a large collective "brain loss" as those who worked on these cars everyday age out of the job/hobby. The last of the A/C cars were built in 1998 - over 20 years ago! Sure, knowledge can be learned/relearned by others, but there is a cost to that too. Then tack on parts availability (whether NOS OEM, Aftermarket or rebuilt) becoming more scarce.

I do worry that when my low hp 60K mile original 2.0, 110hp "911T" motor in my 914/6 needs attention, I might be hard pressed to find someone skilled at a cost that also works for my lack of budget

[DonNewton]

Originally Posted by Vicegrip

Sorry, was too tempting even after all these years

I know, and I would expect nothing else! So, Mountain Man now? treating you good? I have to get back to DC to see you guys. . . Just as soon as I get tired of endless summer.

[super90]

I had an engine and transmission rebuilt this year, as well as buying another zero mile rebuilt 915 transmission outright. Unfortunately, I don't have the invoices in front of me but I recall the Engine rebuild was 35K plus probably another 5K on top of that for incidentals and testing and tuning. That 40 grand bought me a 3.2 to 3.4 twin plug rebuild. Subtract the cost of machining and the distributor we are back at 35K. The two transmissions were approx 6k to rebuild and $8,500 to purchase (its a pretty special transmission).

Parts, machining, shipping, and labor are all expensive. If you are being quoted significantly less $ then you are likely getting exactly what you are paying for.

[Vicegrip]

Q: Why were gentiles invented?
A: Somebody has to pay retail.

[BlackTalon]

And how was copper wire invented?

[good hands]

I had my 3.2 rebuilt last year. Bored out to a 3.4 with 964 cams balanced, blue printed, ported and polished. I think it was 10k at PAW.