[cmartin]

I've read a lot of NASA, Rennlist and SCCA thread about this, I'm curious what you guys have to say.

When you started down the slippery slope of DE what were your goals? Did you want to see what it's like to drive on a track, have ambitions to test the limits of man and machine or were you looking for a stepping-stone to F1?

I ask this question, as my guess is it's a common thought, among DE participants. After a couple years of this stuff I know as long as I am financially able, I will be involved in track events in some way. The thrill of the climbing esses, walking through the paddock on race day, finally getting turn 3 right at SP, once, not to mention the friendships and comradery are highly addictive.

I've spent more time and money on the car, now truck, tires, ebay... than I care to remember. This got me thinking, what's next? Do I want to work to become an instructor some day? Keep trying for that perfect lap, then maybe a session? Expand my horizons to Road Atlanta, Road America and Laguna Seca someday? Is the car I drive now the best choice for my goal? What's my goal?

I didn’t start out doing DE to race, really just to see what it's all about. Racing is too expensive, too time consuming, too... After much research it seems, maybe not. With the popularity of spec classes in production cars, you can be on track in a safe, fun far for much less than I expected. Winning car, maybe not, but I need all the excuses I can get for being so slow. Reading about 44cup, spec Miata, spec e30, PCA club racing.... Comp school, tire budget, trailer, race gas, bump drafting? Oh, that sounds like fun. Am I just nuts?

Is racing the eventual next step in this madness? I figure some try it a few times and then keep going, or realize it's not their thing. Also, I guess some folks do just enough DE to get into racing and never look back. I'm curious what it's like to do both. Is it possible to race competitively, yet still hang out with the guys at DE's and have fun. Does DE become boring when there isnt a plastic prize at the end? Does your outlook change to a test and tune methodology, or are you still content playing chase with your buds? What about you guys/gals that dont race and dont want to. Does DE get boring? Do you get burned out after being an instructor and saying ‘too early’, ‘brake less’, ‘look ahead’ all weekend, every weekend?

If you decided to give racing a try, when did you decide to give it a shot? Is comp school like the bar exam, keep trying until you pass? Or, should you be a seasoned veteran only needing the school as a formality? After reading about NASA comp school it sounds like everyone could learn something, and have a blast at their school. Is this common on comp school, or just NASA?

Do I need to keep quiet and keep my head down for another year?

[TD in DC]

Ha ha, I could have written that post. I personally had no "goals" when I started doing DEs. As you know, I am contemplating racing, depending upon how I do at the two race schools. Why? It is very, very simple: It looks like fun.

I will warn you, though, it has proven to be far, far more expensive than I contemplated. I have burned through my fun budget for many years just trying to get ready for NASA school. Getting the right kind of car, getting it prepped, getting the equipment (e.g., suit, gloves, etc . . . .), getting a tow vehicle, getting a transponder, getting a trailer, tires, spare rims, etc . . . . . Take your expected budget and triple it.

To be honest, I am feeling pressure right now to get everything done before the NASA Comp school. I do not enjoy that. It is almost too much "work" at the moment. I hope that once I get over the initial preparation "hump" all will get better. It was a lot of fun simply grabbing a helmet, gloves, hopping in the 996 and showing up at a DE.

All of that aside, I am not really sure there is a "right" answer. Just remember that life is a marathon, not a sprint, so if you have doubts, don't push it. The track will always be there next year, and so will we . . .

Even if I end up really liking racing, I am sure I will still enjoy DEs. It is a "different" activity, and as long as you keep the goals of each firmly in mind, you should have a great time. There have been several threads discussing "fear" while driving and the buzz that people get in overcoming this emotion. That is not what gives me a buzz. I get a buzz from getting into the zone where you are driving very smoothly, very quickly and everything around you starts to slow down. You can get that feeling whether you are racing or DEing, because it is all about how you control yourself. Even if you guys don't start racing now, or even ever, I will still enjoy running with you at DEs and talking smack in the paddock. Watching some of you improve over the year has been incredible (e.g., Eli) and learning appreciation for the skills of others (e.g., Dave, Tuffy, Sanders, Firoze) is also fun. Besides, there is always something to learn.

With respect to being an instructor, that has never been a goal, and I am in absolutely no hurry. Being a good instructor would require a lot of work, and if I were an instructor, I would put a lot of work into it. Your student deserves it. Although I probably would not say no if asked, I certainly am not trying to get into the I corps. It is probably more work than it is worth, but I feel an obligation to return the favor that so many great instructors have given me.

I am a little wary of people who "want" to be an instructor too badly, or who seek to become one solely to get track discounts. Some of them will be good instructors, while others will become one of "those" instructors who everyone wants to avoid, or who simply sign their students off on the first day without regard to that student's particular strengths or weaknesses so that they can consider their work "done." If you get signed off on the first day, how can you learn anything from your instructor? My assumption is that every instructor could teach or help everyone else, including other instructors, or at least that is how it should be . . .

See you at the track soon

PS: Asking a bunch of lunatics whether you are crazy is insane

[Jazzbass]

I've thought a lot about this, too. Here's my conclusion du jour: I think racing would be a blast, and maybe one day. But. Big but. There is no cheap way to race, AFAIK. Even the cheapest racing is (approx) 2x the cost of doing DEs. Not to mention the time factor - if you're serious, there's events to be at, getting the car ready, etc. DEs - if you miss one or two, no big deal. Right now I have some disposabile income, but not enough to go racing on, and definately not enough time (kids, etc). So DEs it is. Now you, not being married and such, the story may be different.

[michael lang]

I've given that some thought as well, my situation being just starting to get involved. I look at it as a way of stress relief. And as my kids grow older, I'm sure that it will afford me the opportunity to be more involved, but for right now, I have to be satisfied with the one weekend a month for 4-5 hrs to go to an autocross 5-6 times during the summer. I can't wait to get to the track to do a DE but an instructor once told me that to go do a DE, is like taking a weekend long vacation. I don't know that there is a right or wrong answer to your post, it's kinda like what ever fits you and your life at the time is the best way to go. On the otherhand, just like TD noted, the track will always be there next year....which is what I'm counting on for right now!!

Mike

[realroadrage]

I am a lot newer to this than those of you who have posted, but it's amazing how the addiction sinks in quickly. Hate to use a cliche, but to me "it's about the journey, not the destination." When I bought my car, I didn't even know DE existed. I did know that the car was a bit of a beater and that I had committed to years of work on, which is what I wanted. I wasn't going to throw tons of money at it and get it perfect in one step; where's the fun in that?

Throw DE in the mix, and I now have years of work ahead of me on my driving skills, too. Plus, I have new "objectives" in fixing up the beater. Tony Kelly is one of the most accomplished drivers who participates in DE. I remember a post where he reinforced the fact that he is still learning, even at DE events.

Personally, I am happy to leave it as such: enjoy the means and not the end. Iin fact, there is no end in sight for me, which I think is a good thing at this point. Of course, talk to me in a few years ...

[Cliff Claven]

Yes, racing.

[Scuba]

Well, I'm just getting into this whole thing, but I can speak to almost everything you're talking about from a motorcycle racing perspective:

1. The difference between track days and racing motorcycles was like the difference between riding on the street and riding on the track. As exhilarating as it was to learn what you can do in the controlled environment of the track, you make the same jump when you learn what you can do just to try and beat the guy next to you for 18th place.

Maybe a more universal way to explain it is that track day vs. racing is like "manual stimulation" vs. "the real thing". You can still have a lot of fun with it, but it just ain't the same thing.

2. As far as instructing goes - it got me a lot of free track time. However, it was mostly track time at half speed that just ate up my tires - so it can get boring and repetitive. On the other hand, when you've got a good student - one that actually listens to what you say, and at the end of the day is much faster for it (and recognizes that fact and thanks you profusely for it), it can be VERY rewarding.


Now, all this said, motorcycle racing is more like a kilo every two weeks habit, instead of the kilo a week habit of car racing - you just tend to be buying stuff that's cut more pure and leaves you ten times more addicted.

But sometimes you gotta realize your addiction isn't healthy:

[Chopper Dropper]

Hey, those looked like my X rays!! Your goals will be as varied as there are different posters on this or any board. I have been instructing about 5-6 years now, have not done Club Race though I have chaired it for Potomac. I enjoy instructing, am a pretty fast driver in the old 914/6 (3.2) and have a lot of fun driving and hanging out with friends at DE. Sure I have thought about racing, think I get more track time at DE for a given weekend and cost for sure is a lot less. My car would not be competitive in class without a lot more work, and I still get a blast from getting a passing signal from a GT3 in Red group (occasionally) Comes down to whatever trips your trigger. I know there are both faster and slower drivers in both venues, and I am still pulling more out of the bag in DEs. If I went racing, I would probably pull more out quicker. I started with a slight idea I might go into Club Racing, get sponsorship and into other series, then I woke up!! I used my street car till I was well into Red group, bought a dedicated track car that I thought would be fun and it is. Might have saved a bundle if I had decided to go 44 Cup.
Dirk

[Don Wohlfarth]

Some good questions. quotes snipped

Originally Posted by cmartin

When you started down the slippery slope of DE what were your goals? Did you want to see what it's like to drive on a track, have ambitions to test the limits of man and machine or were you looking for a stepping-stone to F1?
The thrill of the climbing esses, walking through the paddock on race day, finally getting turn 3 right at SP, once, not to mention the friendships and comradery are highly addictive.
what's next? Do I want to work to become an instructor some day? Keep trying for that perfect lap, then maybe a session? Expand my horizons to Road Atlanta, Road America and Laguna Seca someday? Is the car I drive now the best choice for my goal? What's my goal?
Racing is too expensive, too time consuming, too... After much research it seems, maybe not.
Am I just nuts?
Is racing the eventual next step in this madness? I figure some try it a few times and then keep going, or realize it's not their thing.
Does DE get boring? Do you get burned out after being an instructor and saying ‘too early’, ‘brake less’, ‘look ahead’ all weekend, every weekend?

People start doing de's to see what the fuss is all about. Some like it, others don't. It's still a hobby, nothing more, nothing less. Very few ever have the "perfect" car when starting. Some try to improve the car, some get another car, and a very few even try to improve the driver.
If you're trying for a career in F1 I've never seen a scout or team owner in the paddock.
Have never tried racing and have no desire. I prefer the more laid back approach to de, live and let live. Just not interested in trying to out brake you over a 10 dollar plastic trophy or having 40-50K in a "stock" SC only to run mid pack. 44cup offers racing on a lower budget but close to 20k for a front runner na, add in 10 more for a turbo.
DE weekends can be a short vacation to get away from the pressures of everyday life.
Agree with Dirk that there's a certain satisfaction when you get a passing signal from the occassional GT3.

[TD in DC]

Originally Posted by Don Wohlfarth

Just not interested in trying to out brake you over a 10 dollar plastic trophy or having 40-50K in a "stock" SC only to run mid pack.

I am going to learn very quickly whether my impressions are right or wrong, but the plastic trophy has little to do with why I think racing would be exciting.

One of the things that I like very much about DEs is how, for a lack of a better word, "intellectual" it can be. In order to be a good driver, you need to have grace under pressure and you need to understand physics well enough that you resist the urge to do the things that seem so "right" in trouble situations despite the fact that they are so wrong (e.g., lifting in a turn when you have entered hotter than you would have liked).

I want to try racing because I think it will add the "chess" aspect to driving. Thinking about strategy, patience, timing, etc . . . I like the "game" aspect, which could be a blast regardless of whether you are on the podium or racing near the back of the pack. I plan to define success not in terms of whether I am getting plastic trophies or not, but rather in terms of whether I am having fun. If I am not having fun, I will stop. If I am having fun, I will continue to race even if I have an uncompetitive car or am not skilled enough to get on the podium. It is not about whether you win, but rather about how you play the game. (OK, I am just as competitive as everyone else and will want to win desperately).

On another note, most every Dorki I know wants desperately to improve themselves as a driver as much or more than they want to improve their cars. I am impressed about this aspect of the group as a whole. There are exceptions, but there always are . . .