[HoodPin]

IMHO, the path to most "viable" Pro Racing careers are either A) a shyte-load of indisputable, raw talent, or B) a shyte-load of cash. Does he have enought of either? The vast majority of folks racing in cars with numbers & stickers on 'em are club racers paying for most it out-of-pocket. And the vast majority of Rolex watches have prolly been bought with out-of-pocket funds, too.

[BMAN]

Originally Posted by APKhaos

talk to NASA MA Director Chris Cobetto and I'll hook you up.

^ I'd take Tony up on this. Since Robbie already has some experience and skill I'd look to get him setup with the best instructors, no matter which program they teach for. Dad is well connected and highly respected..... use some of your connections to get him seat time with the best drivers & instructors.

Originally Posted by CanAm

not wanting to listen to me

Doubt this would be a problem with Rob.

Originally Posted by Jose

Another option is the BMW Club Racing which offers an excellent club race school.

^ X2 I really liked the program. Instructors are with you ALL day, in the classroom and on track the whole time, giving you constant feedback and insights.

Originally Posted by HoodPin

IMHO, the PCA racing program is the most gentlemanly

Call me Mr. lucky. Hit in my first two race weekends. Both did NOT act gentlemanly at all. There was no mistaking I was a rookie with a big X on my bumper and yet both tried to lie their way out of it. One tried to claim I hit him in hopes that I didn't have a camera in my car, luckily I did because the steward was already convinced I was the guilty one. These fine gentleman were so distraught by the way they welcomed a new racer to the community that they both left the paddock without saying a word to me. Getting hit wasn't a problem for me but the lack of regard for the fellow racer did and still does.

[Jose]

Originally Posted by vranko

Sorry for the tangent but when is the next BMW school? I've heard great things about it but can't find any info on when it will be offered in the future.

2014 Club Race schedule for BMWCCA
They do not have the club race schools listed yet. I assume they are figuring out which race weekends they will offer them. I do know for a fact that the April VIR event will have a race school.

[Potomac-Greg]

Originally Posted by HoodPin

IMHO, the path to most "viable" Pro Racing careers are either A) a shyte-load of indisputable, raw talent, or B) a shyte-load of cash. Does he have enought of either? The vast majority of folks racing in cars with numbers & stickers on 'em are club racers paying for most it out-of-pocket. And the vast majority of Rolex watches have prolly been bought with out-of-pocket funds, too.

Early stage "pro" racing means finding a ladder that won't cost you too much. At this point, Mazda offers the most gentle entry point. You can race SM, then MX5 Cup and the top guys there seem to transition to what was Grand Am.

Or you can go the Formula Car route (Collin knows all about this track). The cars are much more expensive to buy and fix, but there are a lot of funded young-guns racing (often against bucket-list rich guys). The top guys there are targeting Indy.

Lastly, there's IMSA Lites which runs a spec prototype car that seems to be a proving ground for what was ALMS P2 and Prototype Challenge guys. You see a lot of names racing IMSA Lites also showing up in PC and P2 cars at big race events.

It's about money and talent, in that order.

[HoodPin]

Originally Posted by HoodPin

........ IMHO, the PCA racing program is the most gentlemanly that I've participated in. Not without occasional issues,....

Originally Posted by BMAN

........Call me Mr. lucky. Hit in my first two race weekends. Both did NOT act gentlemanly at all. There was no mistaking I was a rookie with a big X on my bumper and yet both tried to lie their way out of it. One tried to claim I hit him in hopes that I didn't have a camera in my car, luckily I did because the steward was already convinced I was the guilty one. These fine gentleman were so distraught by the way they welcomed a new racer to the community that they both left the paddock without saying a word to me. Getting hit wasn't a problem for me but the lack of regard for the fellow racer did and still does.

Brian,
I know that there are occasional incidents. I had my own share, even from within 944Cup. Its sad when someone doesn't own up. But in general, I think the demeanor in PCA isn't as cut-throat.

[ausgeflippt951]

Originally Posted by CanAm

...but he clearly lacks judgment and a healthy level of fear, and I wouldn't want to see him racing any time soon.

That's SOP for 99% of 17 y/o's. They lack the "fear gene," as I like to call it. It's really the same with any sport: kids are phenomenal at tapping into 110% of their abilities and giving everything their all, sometimes to excess. What they lack is experience, perspective, situational awareness and in-the-moment analytic skills.

Hell, I was working with one 17 y/o last season who did over $400k in damage to two different cars over two weekends (Road Atlanta and the Glen). He was fast enough to qualify 3rd, but had no idea how to tell when he was traipsing around the edge...at the Glen, he crashed the car in every session (incl. the race itself).

TurboPooch, salient points you make sir. Are you (and he) interested in going pro, or rather making a good amateur career?

Originally Posted by Potomac-Greg

Early stage "pro" racing means finding a ladder that won't cost you too much. At this point, Mazda offers the most gentle entry point. You can race SM, then MX5 Cup and the top guys there seem to transition to what was Grand Am.

Or you can go the Formula Car route (Collin knows all about this track). The cars are much more expensive to buy and fix, but there are a lot of funded young-guns racing (often against bucket-list rich guys). The top guys there are targeting Indy.

Lastly, there's IMSA Lites which runs a spec prototype car that seems to be a proving ground for what was ALMS P2 and Prototype Challenge guys. You see a lot of names racing IMSA Lites also showing up in PC and P2 cars at big race events.

It's about money and talent, in that order.

I'd actually say it's about money, then more money, then more money, followed by some talent thrown in for good measure.

[CanAm]

Originally Posted by ausgeflippt951

That's SOP for 99% of 17 y/o's. They lack the "fear gene," as I like to call it. It's really the same with any sport: kids are phenomenal at tapping into 110% of their abilities and giving everything their all, sometimes to excess. What they lack is experience, perspective, situational awareness and in-the-moment analytic skills.

You know we don't acquire new genes as we get older, right? Yeah, I was plenty foolish as a 17-yo too ... but I didn't (and still don't) have the natural talent this kid has. Oh well, just another old man doing his best and having fun trying.

[Carrera51]

Steve:
He can run with NASA Mid Atlantic. Sign him up for March at VIR, or April at Summit Point. If you do, I'll instruct him. With the experience he has already, he will pick up what he needs to be doing in the car. I love working with drivers who want to eventually go racing.

PM email, or call me if you want to discuss.

[APKhaos]

That 'lacking the fear gene' is important. I have video somewhere of Leh Keen on a test day maybe 6 years ago. He spun/offtracked several times. Each time the crew radio message was 'its OK, you did the right thing trying that, keep it up" etc.

They were preserving the special state of mind that young guys have because that's what drives them to push the limits. As they gain age and experience they get better at avoiding the shunts, but preserve the quickness they learned between shunts.

[N0tt0N]

There were several brothers around 14-16 in my 3 Day Skip Barber Racing School that did great and were very respectful of the instructors. Their 'older' brother, about 17 ahem, was a spec racer of some sort with a team, etc. came to the first day's class but wasn't in the school. Mom & Dad appeared well heeled. Anyway, I thought that was a decent step for them moving from carting to cars with some pretty savvy instructors giving tailored and concentrated feedback.

Actual racing I'm still getting my head around. I liked when folks I trusted were nearby and we were both doing our best to drive the line and position for passes. I absolutely hated it when I knew the guy was an *sshole or at least reckless (didn't listen in class, didn't pay attention when critiquing the other group, etc.) and I found myself letting him by by parking the car on the straight and getting a decent gap so I wouldn't catch him again. I'm not ready to kill to win at my point in life and some people still are, it seems. Blah, blah.