[Don Wohlfarth]

Originally Posted by Kurt Mickelwait

"OK, I cannot kill all of you but who wants to be 1st through 6th?”

Methinks you should discard that pea shooter. Perhaps a pump action shotgun would serve you better in that type of social situation. Even better would be to work on the barrel out in the Taj. You do have a hack saw don't you?

[Vicegrip]

I did not want to project blood lust. I do have a P226 with many 15 round mags as well as a 30 round, But my go to house grab is big fat Glock21 that holds lots of .45 ACP hydroshock P+P. I think if you have to use more than 5 or 6 rounds then something other than shooting should be optioned.

When I speak of defense I am not talking of material things but humans, myself and those around me. If running while screaming like a 13 year old girl at a boy band concert works that that is fine with me. I will see to it that I have as many options as I can so the best method for me can be selected. Care and compassion of anyone with intent to do harm to me or mine is not a big consideration.

The vast majority of defensive gun use does not involve discharging the weapon. Brandishing with good form and a commanding presence is very effective.

[KeithLambert7]

Agree. We use the gun to protect human life, not property (qualifier - in a situation which does not teeter on anarchy). For example, if I'm approached in the middle of the street man to man, by a thief wanting a material object I own - is my life or even his worth it? No. Will the balance of power shift into mob violence if he or I die? No. Yet, I too own my share of guns and would use them to protect my family without hesitation.

Contrast that to New Orleans. To me, that situation changes in the case where anarchy could prevail. Mob mentality is that of overwelming numbers, and of the perception that nothing can be done to stop it. Who can rightfully fault someone looking for water or food in a difficult situation, but if stealing even that is allowed, next comes anarchy in incrimental steps. Soon noone is safe, and we descend to chaos. New Orleans just proves that it can happen even in the US in a scant few days (if allowed to take its own course - which it was, but didn't have to be). If looters had been shot at initially, word would have spread fast that 'it would not be tollerated', instead of the fast spreading word that all was 'free for the taking'.

In situations like that, some must die so others can live. I ask how many lost their lives while waiting for the busses and helicopters to arrive while they were being held back by pot shots? I'd rather see a dead looter and would have no pitty on them, then a dead 82 year old grandmother who couldn't get meds fast enough.

Even if it means preventing that first item (food or jewlery) from being stolen with deadly force if necessary - it keeps the balance tipped in favor of controlling the situation. One shot at or into a looter, can prevent future death resulting from mob mentaility. Mob-mentaility almost always results in death, while detering mob violence with force could (doesn't always but could) prevent it. The problem as someone stated earlier (better then I) the best solution seems to be that of detering the mob in the first place.

First water & food is stolen, then material goods, then weapons, and not always in that order. Sadly, in throughout history, this has always been the case.
Keith

[tghii]

I used to live in New Orleans and spoke with a few of my friends who were in N.O. with me back in the late 80's/early 90's. Our general consensus is that most of what you are now seeing on TV, less the water in the streets, is not much different that what one might see on any Friday or Saturday night in certain areas of the Big Easy. 35% poverty and usually the murder capital of the U.S. though D.C. has also won the murder award a few times.

In N.O. it was a necessity to "carry" if you traveled to certain parts of mid or down town. If someone will take your property then they'll also take your life when given the right opportunity. Always meet force with escalating force.

You really cannot imagine how bad it was in N.O. long before the Hurricane. You might be riding the street car on St.Charles and a teenage thug would sit behind you and say, "...hey man, why don't you loan me some money... I gots some boys waiting for me at yo' stop and I need some money..." I'd tell them, "No loan, but I will fight you for it. I caught the second worst beating of my life due to this tactic but I never gave up a dime.

Just because you're paranoid does not mean thery're not out to get you.

Why did I start this rant? Oh yeah, when in doubt go LOUD - 12ga or .45 for CQB. 7.62 to reach out and say hello. M4 in 5.56 is a jack of all trades.

I've a Heckler & Koch SOCOM .45cal for sale, as new, if anyone's looking to up-arm. It's the real deal with a full Blackhawk case, extra mags, etc....

thomas

[markwemple]

I won't touch politics. But, does anyone eslse find this line of conversation sick or silly?? In N.O. the shooting simply shows to me that gun owners shouldn't.

[BillJ]

I for one find it germaine and very important. The armed criminal and/or desperate will prey on the weak and unarmed. Sorry if you do not like the human condition, but it is true. I for one stand with those that are willing to defend the right to defend themselves and the weak. It is not political, it is a fact of life. Like it or lump it, the Truth is that humans are flawed creatures that will react the full range. The honest and caring are countered always by the dishonest and selfish. Most folks fall somewhere in the middle. When tragedy opens up opportunity, the line is drawn between those that will preserve life and those who are willing to compromise it for gain. You think a man who hasnt eaten for 5 days or simply wants to play out his sick power games (on the wrong side of that line) comes at you for your food or property (or life) will care that you are compassionate? You think your words are enough to make him go on his way? That is an ignorant position...


sorry if thou dost offend...

[markwemple]

Sad assumption that guns are a necessary part of life or the human condition.

[tghii]

So I guess it's a sad assumption that cars (Porsche) that can double any posted speed limit are a necessary part of life or the human condition - at least the Dorki condition anyway.

Just think how the fatality rate across the planet would plummet if we banned autos and all rode bicycles or maybe used little pink wagons with roll bars and extra safety equipment as the only legal method of transport. After all why does one need a car (or weapon) that can surpass the posted speed limit, or more than one car per family, one TV, a knife, free will, the right to free speech, - think of all the things that we could ban to save lives. Then we could give all of our wealth to those who did not work hard to have the things that we've earned.

I must be a really bad person because I still think I would light up anyone trying to steal my hot-rod pink wagon. But then again I would probably be in prison before some thug could steal my wagon because I would rebel against "The Man" and paint my wagon a really cool color like Gulf Blue (the evil petroleum giant) or Viper Green (BP another evil petroleum giant) which would violate the leftist dogma to only use pacifist colors.

A firearm is an inanimate object just like a knife, think O.J. Simpson, a big club if you're going caveman style, a six iron for Tiger Woods stylin' or a record setting Porsche CGT if you're Jay Leno and intent on inflicting severe bodily harm or death. An inanimate object is neither inherently good nor inherently bad until wielded by a human with a specific intent. Here we can thank the Colonial Freedom fighters who were bankers, farmers, and businessmen who took up arms to free us from oppression during the American Revolution and bless us all with the Second Amendment. Surely I can call the Colonist Freedom Fighters, right? If Iraqi terrorists are freedom fighters as labeled by the leftist liberals of the United States then surely the Colonist were Freedom Fighters - with big bad evil guns thank God. Any guesses as to the one inanimate object that most ensures our freedom and supports the freedom movement across the world? I'll give you a hint... its not a pink wagon.

And yes, in times of crisis I'd shoot a thug over my pink wagon or any other material possession because that item just might be the one item that I'd soon need to barter for water, food or shelter for my little girl. But I'd also give it away to help someone truly in need. I'd put the individual in need in my pink wagon and pull them to safety, might even terminate a thug or two along the way, just because helping those in need is always the right thing to do.

Please excuse the aimless banter. I must have crashed my pink wagon and bumped my head. I'm not sick, but I'm not well....

Just something to think about, so there.

And to all a good night!

[AznDrgn]

Sweet I know where I'll be hiding out if the worst should happen.