[racer]

964 ($15,000) + motor rebuild ($15,000?) is still MUCH less than a 996GT3/997/etc.

I also think you don't want an "old" car. So why get one? Just get what you want, worry less about what others think (unless they are PPI related questions) and have fun!

I think a built up SPEC boxster would be a great track car for you since it is essentially your Cayman, but faster

[CanAm]

Originally Posted by racer

964 ($15,000) + motor rebuild ($15,000?) is still MUCH less than a 996GT3/997/etc.

I also think you don't want an "old" car. So why get one? Just get what you want, worry less about what others think (unless they are PPI related questions) and have fun!

I think a built up SPEC boxster would be a great track car for you since it is essentially your Cayman, but faster

Main deterrent for me getting in an older car is my lack of knowledge about them - which to get, inspection, maintenance, repair, etc. Would love to learn about all that, and do more hands-on stuff, but there's only so much time, and my driving/car time is still more focused on the driving part. The Cayman has had zero issues with over 20K miles and over 10K track miles, which IMO is impressive.

Related story. My cousin recently told me he wants to get a Porsche and get on track. Really wanted a 911 turbo. I told him it'll be too fast and RWD is probably a better way to go. I suggested going used CPO, spending under $50K, getting either a Cayman or non-turbo RWD 996/997, insuring it for the track, and doing DEs with his local PCA groups. I didn't recommend that he go older than a 996 because he's a very busy guy and I thought a modern reliable car will suit him better for the combination of road and track use he has in mind.

[ausgeflippt951]

Originally Posted by Irfan

Main deterrent for me getting in an older car is my lack of knowledge about them - which to get, inspection, maintenance, repair, etc. Would love to learn about all that, and do more hands-on stuff, but there's only so much time, and my driving/car time is still more focused on the driving part. The Cayman has had zero issues with over 20K miles and over 10K track miles, which IMO is impressive.

Related story. My cousin recently told me he wants to get a Porsche and get on track. Really wanted a 911 turbo. I told him it'll be too fast and RWD is probably a better way to go. I suggested going used CPO, spending under $50K, getting either a Cayman or non-turbo RWD 996/997, insuring it for the track, and doing DEs with his local PCA groups. I didn't recommend that he go older than a 996 because he's a very busy guy and I thought a modern reliable car will suit him better for the combination of road and track use he has in mind.

Perhaps you are thinking, "If I own an old car, I am required to become my own mechanic and can no longer take it into a shop when something breaks." This is a fallacy -- there are a number of extremely reputable old-car mechanics in your neck of the woods; the even better part is that the average service is often cheaper than a comparable service at a dealership on a new car. Especially if you find a very well-sorted, updated older car, nothing whatsoever changes on your end: you take it to the mechanic to get it ready for the next DE, you drive the piss out of it, and you take it back to the mechanic when something breaks.


Not that it's either here or there, but old cars -- especially many of the N/A air-cooled 911's -- can be more reliable than a modern car. Hell, even an N/A 944 with a newish wiring harness, clutch, fuel lines, water pump/belts/hoses, and oil will go for 300k miles on the stock bottom end (Note: total cost of service for all aforementioned updates would only be around $4-5k for said 944).

[ausgeflippt951]

There are two reasons why people who own older cars also tend to be their own mechanic:

1) Old cars are usually much more simple than newer cars, and require simpler (read: cheaper) tools.
2) We tend to be cheap bastards who don't want to pay someone else to work on our cars.

[CanAm]

Originally Posted by ausgeflippt951

Perhaps you are thinking, "If I own an old car, I am required to become my own mechanic and can no longer take it into a shop when something breaks." This is a fallacy -- there are a number of extremely reputable old-car mechanics in your neck of the woods; the even better part is that the average service is often cheaper than a comparable service at a dealership on a new car. Especially if you find a very well-sorted, updated older car, nothing whatsoever changes on your end: you take it to the mechanic to get it ready for the next DE, you drive the piss out of it, and you take it back to the mechanic when something breaks.


Not that it's either here or there, but old cars -- especially many of the N/A air-cooled 911's -- can be more reliable than a modern car. Hell, even an N/A 944 with a newish wiring harness, clutch, fuel lines, water pump/belts/hoses, and oil will go for 300k miles on the stock bottom end (Note: total cost of service for all aforementioned updates would only be around $4-5k for said 944).

Given how little I know about the older cars, can't disagree with you. But when driving to tracks far away, gives me some peace of mind to know that the car is newer (less worn out overall), covered by warranty, dealers anywhere should be able to fix it, etc. BTW, we get all of our non-warranty servicing done by a local shop (SSI), not a dealer, since they understand track use.

[roundel]

Originally Posted by ausgeflippt951

There are three reasons why people who own older cars also tend to be their own mechanic:

1) Old cars are usually much more simple than newer cars, and require simpler (read: cheaper) tools.
2) We tend to be cheap bastards who don't want to pay someone else to work on our cars.
3) We prefer DIY so we know that the guy working on our track car understands that a mistake could be very dangerous and understanding the car and its maintenance increases our awareness on track.

ftfy

[ausgeflippt951]

Good point! Totally agree.

[CanAm]

I'll take the other side of this slow vs fast car debate for a moment. Best argument I can think of for going with a slow car is that it'll force the driver to learn to drive it well to keep up with the faster cars, since there'll be no possibility of 'cheating'.

That's fine, BUT I'm not in favor of forcing people in that way. If somebody's having fun and staying safe, who cares if their learning is slower? If they're satisfied with progressing slowly through run groups, so be it. Their choice. The exception to this would be if somebody said they're determined to be a competitive racer and wants help getting there (not me), the choice of car could matter more.

[BlackTalon]

40+ track days/ year is a lot, especially if on at least half of those days there are two drivers. No matter how old/ new the car is, plan on caliper rebuilds each season, wheel bearing replacements every 2 seasons, etc. Ongoing maintenance/ preventative maintenance is going to be the biggest issue.

An older 911/ 964 that has already had an engine rebuild will likely log a lot more track miles then a 60k mile 996 that has not yet been rebuilt.

And even with a brand new 911 (991), chances are you will want to replace/ upgrade the suspension before too much time passes due to all the track time you log.

[Bill]

I am not sure where you want to end up in all of this but let me throw out a discussion possibility. We have an '07 997 cup car that we are interested in selling. I note that you have a Cayman and we are toying with the idea of entering one of the Cayman spec series. It would be interesting to see how your car is prepared and if we could work a swap with cash. Both of us might be able to reach our goal. Call if this is a possibility--410-712-4290. We are At Speed Motorsports and would like to see if there is any interest. Ask for Morgan or Bill.

Originally Posted by Irfan

Sorry, I can see how I'm creating confusion (I'm confused myself!). Main goal is get a 911 that can be tracked, sooner or later - really miss the one I had, the 911 is special. 997 GT3 would be ideal, but the price is more than I want to spend right now. GT2 is even more $, and at that price need to see how the 991 GT3 turns out and would need to sell the Cayman, which the wife won't permit right now. 996 GT3 maybe meets the criteria best, but need to find one, and will hopefully be checking one out this weekend. Non-GT 996 or 997 might also work (and brings the cost down), but might need an S to feel it has enough power compared to the Cayman. Would love a 993, but they seem even more expensive than the older 996s. 964 is definitely an option, and could live with the lesser power since it would offer the fun of an 'older' car, but want to see what I can find in a 996 or 997 first, since I know almost nothing about how to shop for an older car.