[ausgeflippt951]

Originally Posted by hobiecat

I've got 400lb springs with coilovers in the front. That's balanced against 30mm torsion bars in the rear.
Yes - it's pretty stiff, but you can still drive it on the street. I drove it to Mid-Ohio one year.......

As has been said before, torsion bars are a PITA. It took me 4 tries to get it right. By tries, that means
I had to drop the rear suspension unit and re-index the bars 4 times to get the ride height I wanted. Then
I used the eccentric bolt to make the final adjustments during corner balancing.

If you want that part to be easier, coilovers in the rear make setting the ride height 1000 times easier
and the stock bars weigh less. However, the extra weight of the 30mm bars is close to the bottom of the
car so the overall effect of the weight gain is minimized. Also - I'm kind of hard headed, so the more I heard people
complain about how hard it was to do T-bars, part of me just wanted to see if I could do it.

Don't forget sway bars. Make sure that you "match" them up too. I have a 30 mm up front (from a Turbo S)
and an 18mm adjustable in the rear. In hard cornering, these really help quite a bit.

New bushings really help as well. There are many choices out there that are far better than stock. Check out Elephant Racing....

In the end, my car can corner significantly better than it did when in "stock" condition, but at the same
time, it's nicely balanced and neutral - which is what I was going for. Street comfort was not a real factor,
but then it was never intended to be a daily driver.

If you don't mind me asking: do you suffer from understeer? IME, 30mm T-bars lend themselves a bit better to 350# springs. Then again, what sway bars do you have? I'd be hesitant to go with 400# springs + 30mm T-bars in an N/A since you don't really have many ways of inducing oversteer at that point!

Then again, it also depends on your driving style + other mods. My setup (350# + 30mm) is with a stock interior/panels/wt distribution, so YMMV.

Originally Posted by HoodPin

Regarding the rear suspesion, Koni coilovers is the way to go. Easy install, and easy corner balancing. And as I'm reading the rules, coil overs in place of torsion bars is allowed in all the 944Cup classes.
http://www.44cup.com/official/944CupRules-2012.pdf

Oh reeeeally. That is interesting; I didn't think that used to be the case.



As others have said, reindexing T-bars is a real PITA. However, with a basic knowledge of trig (and planning ahead when you pull it apart) you can *usually* do it in one try.

If it were my car to do over, I'd probably go with coilovers in the rear. Easier to modify spring rates, easier to adjust/corner balance.

That said, if your spring plate bushings are shot and you're going to need to pull most of it apart anyway, the advantage may not be as great as one might hope.


In the case of my car, I installed polybronze spring plate bushings while I was in there. Big help.

[HoodPin]

Originally Posted by ausgeflippt951

......That said, if your spring plate bushings are shot and you're going to need to pull most of it apart anyway, the advantage may not be as great as one might hope.,,.

Unless, you simply remove the t-bars while you're in there, and then replace the rear coil-over springs with heavier ones.

[Potomac-Greg]

Originally Posted by HoodPin

Unless, you simply remove the t-bars while you're in there, and then replace the rear coil-over springs with heavier ones.

2nd. On a scale of 1-10 in terms of expertise and effort required:

1. Adding rear coilovers to torsion bar = 2/10
2. Upgrading and indexing torsion bar = 8/10
3. Yanking torsion bars and replacing with coilovers = 5/10

(I did #1, wasn't happy, so then #3.)

[ausgeflippt951]

Originally Posted by Potomac-Greg

2nd. On a scale of 1-10 in terms of expertise and effort required:

1. Adding rear coilovers to torsion bar = 2/10
2. Upgrading and indexing torsion bar = 8/10
3. Yanking torsion bars and replacing with coilovers = 5/10

(I did #1, wasn't happy, so then #3.)

Well said, Greg.


I've heard some people have even go to the lengths of un-indexing the t-bars but keeping them there; it's always seemed a little odd to me.


What didn't you like about #1? Interesting to hear. I personally don't have much experience with #1; my current car is #2 and I love it.

[jsheiry]

I have gone the route that Tony suggests and have also used Jason at Paragon for much technical info as well as this and other boards. I now have the following setup:

Koni Coil overs up front with 400 lb springs 26.8mm sway bar
Gaz Coil overs in rear with 575 lb springs 16 mm sway bar

Torsion bars removed, bushings replaced (Why Porsche actually calls the volcanized rubber thing a bushing is beyond me?? Not sure when all bolted together how it actually moves in ANY precision manner?? The race area has so much slag from the welding process its almost laughable.)

I think the car is incredibly neutral, infinetly adjustable as far as ride height with much ease. Change springs weight, height at a moments notice etc.. etc.... etc..

In the end as my car sat in the garage with my little time and money for all these so called upgrades I WISH I never messed with it and got MORE seat time like many people suggested to me. I missed DE's because I wanted to do all this stuff and quite frankly have missed much fun and valuable time.

I will say in the end I do like working on the thing as much as driving it (I'm strange like that) but do look back and feel that participating in the DE's would have been a better use of the time and money.

[smdubovsky]

Originally Posted by ausgeflippt951

my current car is #2 and I love it.

[Trak Ratt]

Originally Posted by smdubovsky

^ I'm ashamed to admit it but it took me a minute or two for this to sink in...

[John Clay]

Originally Posted by Trak Ratt

^ I'm ashamed to admit it but it took me a minute or two for this to sink in...

I just "got it"

[ruffyz]

I just read through http://www.elephantracing.com/projec...ngplatediy.htm the spring plate bushing removal looks annoying, but doable. Still, makes me wonder if redoing the torsion bars is really worth the effort. Pulling it out and going to coils might be the way to go, but pricey.

Anyone want to give me a ride-along in their '44, so I can get a feel for different spring rates?

[ausgeflippt951]

Originally Posted by smdubovsky

Originally Posted by Trak Ratt

^ I'm ashamed to admit it but it took me a minute or two for this to sink in...

Originally Posted by John Clay

I just "got it"

Har har har.

Originally Posted by ruffyz

I just read through http://www.elephantracing.com/projec...ngplatediy.htm the spring plate bushing removal looks annoying, but doable. Still, makes me wonder if redoing the torque tube is really worth the effort. Pulling it out and going to coils might be the way to go, but pricey.

Anyone want to give me a ride-along in their '44, so I can get a feel for different spring rates?

What's your timeline looking like on this? Did you see my response to your PM -- the car will be on jackstands for the next few weeks but after that will be good to go...

Also, did you mean "redoing the t-bars"? Not sure where the TT came into the conversation.