[John Clay]

Raffy. One thing from your original post. Has spec 944 made its way to tbe east coast? Back when I was starting spec 944944 was only a west coast deal. In tbe east it is 944 cup, a much more open series.

[ruffyz]

Yeah, as I'm doing more research it seems spec is mostly west coast into the midwest, but there looks to be at least some activity in the Southeast region. For my purposes a spec suspension setup is a data point as to the stiffest possible setup with street shocks, not that I'm advocating such a setup for my car. Still haven't figured it all out, tomorrow should be fruitful.

[ausgeflippt951]

Originally Posted by Potomac-Greg

To facilitate your research, many of the 944s will be up on jackstands, so you'll be able to look at their suspension from underneath.

Yeah, I was on jackstands this weekend so I wasn't doing anything to help the stereotype.

Fortunately my "issues" were limited to (a) a loose hub bolt (weird!) and lost wheel weights. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.



Anyway Raffi, I didn't know you were looking to actually upgrade your suspension, otherwise I could've spent some time going over my car with you.


I spent the time "doing it right" and let me tell you, it ain't easy. BUT, I've been hugely happy with it. I chose a setup that is just about as stiff as you'd want it for the street.


Many people have been doing rear coilovers nowadays and just leaving their stock t-bars alone. Alternatively, some are choosing to remove the T-bars altogether. I chose to replace my t-bars with stiffer units because the coilover thing was relatively new to the "normal guy" scene and I didn't trust the mounting points. Seems like I was wrong; I've never heard of a shock mounting point failure on these cars (the reason I was skeptical was because the shock is a non-stressed member, but as soon as you put coilovers there, it becomes a stressed member).


Anyway, here's what I did, and it has made for a ridiculously well-balanced track car that has so far been able to run circles around most cars at SP:

-- Koni Yellows
-- 350# springs front
-- 30mm torsion bars
-- 27.5mm front sway (from a Turbo S -- you don't need any more than this with this setup)
-- 19mm adjustable 968 MO30 rear sway (I'm in the middle)



One thing to note: it does make the ride fairly harsh for a street car; some might say it's too stiff if you're going to street drive it often. But as long as your bushings/balljoints/wheel bearings are also in good shape, it will feel nice and tight.



Like I said about t-bars -- it's kind of a "dying breed": most people are installing coilovers nowadays.

Since the N/A is such a softly-sprung car, you really will need to do both the front and rear suspension together (whereas you can get away with modestly upgrading the front susp and leave the rear alone with a 951). Also, as a point of reference, the 250# spring is the stiffest spring you can install before you need to go to coilovers.

If memory serves, the N/A spring rate is something around 125#. The 951 is in the neighborhood of 150-175# (the Turbo S is stiffer).

[ruffyz]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards going ahead and doing springs in the front along with new koni's, which means I'm going to have to mess with the rear. The stock front spring rate is 140 lbs and rear is 126 lbs equivalent according to clark's and other sources, so from what I hear even 200 lbs springs in the front is going to be a bit unbalanced without upping the rear.

[Trak Ratt]

Originally Posted by ruffyz

... so from what I hear even 200 lbs springs in the front is going to be a bit unbalanced without upping the rear.

If you aren't going racing right away AND your rear bushes aren't toast why not go with raer coil overs too? Easy to add considering what replacing the t-bars take.

[ruffyz]

Originally Posted by Trak Ratt

If you aren't going racing right away AND your rear bushes aren't toast why not go with raer coil overs too? Easy to add considering what replacing the t-bars take.

So you're saying go for stiff coils front and back even if I'm not racing? I'm hoping to get a ride-along on a 944 with an upgraded suspension so I can make my own call as to what is "too stiff".

I haven't studied the t-bar schematic yet, so I don't even know how to being assessing the current state of the rear suspension. I suspect that many a rubber bushing or moving part needs some TLC.

[tank]

Originally Posted by ruffyz

.. so from what I hear even 200 lbs springs in the front is going to be a bit unbalanced without upping the rear.

I just installed Koni yellows with 250lb springs up front and just the shocks in the rear. No changes to the torsion bar. Hope I haven't ruined it. There was a write-up that I read some months ago that explained what effect changing certain aspects of the suspension will have to overall handling..

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/susp-15.htm

[hobiecat]

I've got 400lb springs with coilovers in the front. That's balanced against 30mm torsion bars in the rear.
Yes - it's pretty stiff, but you can still drive it on the street. I drove it to Mid-Ohio one year.......

As has been said before, torsion bars are a PITA. It took me 4 tries to get it right. By tries, that means
I had to drop the rear suspension unit and re-index the bars 4 times to get the ride height I wanted. Then
I used the eccentric bolt to make the final adjustments during corner balancing.

If you want that part to be easier, coilovers in the rear make setting the ride height 1000 times easier
and the stock bars weigh less. However, the extra weight of the 30mm bars is close to the bottom of the
car so the overall effect of the weight gain is minimized. Also - I'm kind of hard headed, so the more I heard people
complain about how hard it was to do T-bars, part of me just wanted to see if I could do it.

Don't forget sway bars. Make sure that you "match" them up too. I have a 30 mm up front (from a Turbo S)
and an 18mm adjustable in the rear. In hard cornering, these really help quite a bit.

New bushings really help as well. There are many choices out there that are far better than stock. Check out Elephant Racing....

In the end, my car can corner significantly better than it did when in "stock" condition, but at the same
time, it's nicely balanced and neutral - which is what I was going for. Street comfort was not a real factor,
but then it was never intended to be a daily driver.

[Trak Ratt]

Originally Posted by ruffyz

So you're saying go for stiff coils front and back even if I'm not racing?

No, I'm saying matching the stiffer front springs is easier (less work, less $$) with rear coil overs than t-bars. If you have ever replaced or paid someone to replace the t-bars on '44 you'd instantly know what I mean. Don't think coil covers are legal in most popular racing groups so there is that too. Still until you are ready to go racing they might be a cost effective way to feel your way through the suspension upgrade jungle.

[HoodPin]

Originally Posted by John Clay

Raffy. One thing from your original post. Has spec 944 made its way to tbe east coast? Back when I was starting spec 944944 was only a west coast deal. In tbe east it is 944 cup, a much more open series.

FWIW, you can still build and run a 944Spec (SP1) car, just won't have that much competition in class (yet, anyway). But still an effective route to racing, without having to go the whole SP2 route. And in the end, the time differences between 944Spec and SP2 isn't that much different, so would still be fun to drive & race.

Regarding the rear suspesion, Koni coilovers is the way to go. Easy install, and easy corner balancing. And as I'm reading the rules, coil overs in place of torsion bars is allowed in all the 944Cup classes.
http://www.44cup.com/official/944CupRules-2012.pdf