[Jazzbass]

Originally Posted by Fairfax 944

But for those laps that I was held up in traffic, and didn't know how fast or slow the cars were behind me, was I wrong not throwing a pass to the guy behind me? I don't think so, because I didn't know if the person behind me was faster or slower as the pace was quite slow.

Hmmm... good question. Like Kurt, I think the answer is "It depends". From what I've seen, often times the conductor won't give a pass to the #2 guy because they are similar in lap times - say #1 does 1:29s and #2 does 1:28s. #2 is faster, clearly, but not a LOT faster. So you get situations where #1 pulls away on the straights, but is caught in the carousel. #1 thinks "if I can just nail the carousel, I'll put some time between us" or "I don't want to be stuck behind this guy". And so no pass and the battle between #1 and #2 goes on lap after lap - meanwhile, #3 is one of those gods of DE, the "real" race car drivers like Scott running 1:26s who are being held up by your slow asses and being deprived of the opportunity to prove to the scouts in the stands from McLaren what they can really do.

In red, there is significantly more awareness of who is who and how fast (relatively) everyone is. I know in general who is faster or slower than me, so if I do get stuck in a train (like, for example, during red/black combined sessions) I'll typically let the faster guys go, even though I'm "next". One thing about doing this is it will often break the mental block of the train conductor - a new car in the rear view gives him that "holy shit" moment and gets the arm out the window. This followed by you coming up behind him immediately after will typically earn you a pass as well. So, in your situation - if I spent two laps behind the conductor without a pass, I'd let the guy behind me go if for no other reason than to try and break the log jam.

Then again, some guys are just egotistical douchebags who will never believe anyone is faster than them and will always be train conductors. These guys have zero track awareness and I like to think we keep them in black

[racer]

Do we know if car 1 in Evan's video was some kind of "check out ride" gone wrong

That said, passing in corners is "optional" and those not getting a signal to pass in the corners may need to adjust expectations.

Is there a "rat out" method in place to note frequent offenders? In a blue or novice group, an instructor might search out the offenders instructor and have a conversation.

I will say, I have noticed in some other regions, that sometimes the biggest offender to the lack of signal is the chief instructor!

[racer]

Originally Posted by Jazzbass

In red, there is significantly more awareness of who is who and how fast (relatively) everyone is. I know in general who is faster or slower than me, so if I do get stuck in a train (like, for example, during red/black combined sessions) I'll typically let the faster guys go, even though I'm "next". One thing about doing this is it will often break the mental block of the train conductor - a new car in the rear view gives him that "holy shit" moment and gets the arm out the window. This followed by you coming up behind him immediately after will typically earn you a pass as well. So, in your situation - if I spent two laps behind the conductor without a pass, I'd let the guy behind me go if for no other reason than to try and break the log jam.

Then again, some guys are just egotistical douchebags who will never believe anyone is faster than them and will always be train conductors. These guys have zero track awareness and I like to think we keep them in black

x2

[N Fotouhi]

Originally Posted by good hands

Also please be aware that if there is a car behind you with a really cool paint job and has like really cool permanent numbers and racing stripes on it... it's probably a race car driver and not just a DE driver. We are faster and superior drivers than average DE guys so please be courteous. We are fast. Early signals are appreciated....

Originally Posted by Trak Ratt

Pleeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....................

Come on TR, you know he drives Flat out

[FTS]

Can we use flahers and horn?

[Dr K]

First, a RED car with numbers is likely running 1:26's. A BLACK car with numbers (other than "2") might be a different story...at least for now! But please don't tell the "regular" conductors in black, as (for now) they're letting me by.

Second, in Black the "rat out" method is to go up to the driver, whom we know, and just mention you have several laps of video of them - which was several laps minus a fraction of a lap too long. Then have lunch with other black drivers at the table within hearing distance of the CI's, and discuss the trains and conductors. They've been talked to, and (other than that video) things have seemed a bit better this year.

Third, I sure do like driving on the track

Fourth, I'm looking to borrow or rent a 2-in (1- or 2-out) high flow muffler for 1-2 weeks if someone has one sitting around.

[whitecar]

" a new car in the rear view gives him that "holy shit" moment and gets the arm out the window. This followed by you coming up behind him immediately after will typically earn you a pass as well. "



This is the key... starts with the 3rd car... just show a different face and it changes quickly... this works in Red.

bob

[Vicegrip]

Originally Posted by Jazzbass

In red, there is significantly more awareness of who is who and how fast (relatively) everyone is. I know in general who is faster or slower than me, so if I do get stuck in a train (like, for example, during red/black combined sessions) I'll typically let the faster guys go, even though I'm "next". One thing about doing this is it will often break the mental block of the train conductor - a new car in the rear view gives him that "holy shit" moment and gets the arm out the window. This followed by you coming up behind him immediately after will typically earn you a pass as well. So, in your situation - if I spent two laps behind the conductor without a pass, I'd let the guy behind me go if for no other reason than to try and break the log jam.

Then again, some guys are just egotistical douchebags who will never believe anyone is faster than them and will always be train conductors. These guys have zero track awareness and I like to think we keep them in black

Agree except for keeping them in black. I say keep them off the track. Chronic poor passing should earn a side line chat, during their next run group, at length, with powerpoint and a 10 question essay test. Sadly this should not be an issue if mirrors and arms are in full use. Start gentle and increase as needed. Chat, long chat, real long chat during the run, slash tires, 5 guys with soap in socks in an enclosed trailer, leave car unattended in the dorki dog-pound and watch it get stripped to bare sheet metal.

Bold. All kidding aside. There is no place for this in any non instructed group. By the time you get to the upper groups you should have had more than enough training and correction to know better. Trains are due to training. Lack of training. Passing is no different than pit out procedures or flag reading. Poor pass giving creates unsafe conditions.

Originally Posted by whitecar

" a new car in the rear view gives him that "holy shit" moment and gets the arm out the window. This followed by you coming up behind him immediately after will typically earn you a pass as well. "



This is the key... starts with the 3rd car... just show a different face and it changes quickly... this works in Red.

bob

What sucks is when the guy you were having a good time chasing gets a pass but you don't. Laying back, pit in and out helps but kills you from running with other like time cars at times.

We humans are an odd lot. Too many variables.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by FTS

Ryan, is the video actually there?

Can you not see it?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Vicegrip

A move to Black or Red should be provisional. You get an X just like in CR. A real one or just on paper. Be Thomas the Train engine and you get to take one step back after getting reported by enough non X holders. Non X holders have a duty to note poor passing methods on the upper run groups.

Originally Posted by racer

Is there a "rat out" method in place to note frequent offenders? In a blue or novice group, an instructor might search out the offenders instructor and have a conversation.

I think we need to make it mandatory to put bid car numbers at the back of the car. Would make it easy for everyone to report to the stewards/CIs.