[racer]

Originally Posted by Dr K

I believe the Escape is made by Mazda, no?

Other way around.. Mazda tribute is a rebadged Escape...

[Mike W]

Originally Posted by APKhaos

At the risk of waking a sleeping dragon.........

So, I'm looking for a car for my 19YO boy. It will be in the 8-10 year old range, so the maintenance/reliability issue in this thread is on point. Everyone has had their say about VAG, but a nice A4 is still in the 'possible' column for me.

Anyone have any recent experience with the SAAB line? remember, this will be a pre-Ford ownership model. Anyone?

Tony,

While I can't speak to the long term reliability of a Saab, I can say that my one owner (me) almost 2 year old car has been excellent.

The 9-3 Viggens of that era were supposed to be a blast with the turbo engines (of course this adds complications to maintenance but since you own a 951, I'm somehow positive you would know more about that than I). The regular engines are supposed to be fine for a normal driver (sometimes I wish I had gotten the 2L 4cyl) and the hatchback is supposed to be great for cargo.

[Rick V]

Accord, Camery, Volvo would be my choices, safe, solid, easy, cheep (as in they don't break) and parts can be had at FLAPS.

[William Miller]

Rick, thanks for the feedback.

I wonder what the insurance man would say as that is also a pretty big chunk of the ownership costs. Right?
How does that work. I assume the liability is the biggest premium assuming the car itself is relativly cheap and easy to replace. Arn't some cars more suceptable to theft? Maybe not an older model.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by markwemple

Beisdes, there will be more rust on a 5 year old honda, than on a 15 year old audi.

I have owned 3 Honda vehicles. None have ever had rust issues. My current Honda is an eleven year old CR-V with 215k on the clock. The late '70s and early '80s Hondas did have some rust issues.

Originally Posted by Rick V

Accord, Camery, Volvo would be my choices, safe, solid, easy, cheep (as in they don't break) and parts can be had at FLAPS.

X2, with the recommendation that the Volvo be a pre-Ford Volvo.

[The Donkey]

I would have to agree with Rick V. If I am putting my daughters in a car I couldn't care less about looks or performance or resale, etc. It all comes down to what vehicle allows them to survive an accident with the best chance. Odds are a 16+ year old will be in a wreck. I don't care about the reliability no matter the cost to me. I haven't done the research but I am thinking Volvo or big SUV. Used, New, no matter. Whatever fits the budget. I do think that all or most of the German cars are pretty safe though. The 2 wrecks I have been in were in an Audi 5000 and an 85 Porsche 911 and I probably shouldn't have been around after either accident. I probably wouldn't put one of my kids in either car though as a starter vehicle.

This really is a tough question though and deserves good discussion. Good topic.

If it was up to me, right now, and my girls were turning 16, I would opt for Volvo wagon, BMW 5 series sedan (97-03) or similar Audi. I just don't know enough about the safety of the american SUV's. I do know that some of the Ford's and GM's up to 03 were crumple zone nightmares for the occupants. After that I think the SUV's were safer and received good ratings.

[Clarke]

The problem with putting a young driver in a SUV is the rollover risk.

[Mike W]

Originally Posted by Clarke

The late '70s and early '80s Hondas did have some rust issues.

Honda's had rust issues until the mid-90's.

My 83 Accord was my first car and a hand-me-down from my parents that had more rust than metal by the time I got it. Luckily I didn't hit anything or anything hit me because that car would have folded (there was a hole in the floorboard, rust at all wheel wells, the trunk barely held shut because most of it was rusted, rust at the door sills... seriously unsafe). They had improved it by the next gen as my next car was an 87 Accord that was rusting but mostly at the rear wheel arches and below the rear doors, as was my 88 Accord that I got next. The 92 Accord I had next also had rust but this car only at the rear wheel wells. So nothing more than cosmetics.

I hear that at either the 96 or 98 redesign they finally changed their metal treatment to help prevent rust... I hope. I haven't had a Honda since I got my 97 Jeep during college.

[The Donkey]

That is a good point about the rollover risk in the SUV's.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by Mike W

Honda's had rust issues until the mid-90's.

My first Honda was a '91 Accord coupe that was 7 or 8 years old when I bought it. No rust in the rear, but I have seen a few over the years that do have rust in the rear wheel arches.