[racer]

I assume you've had a chance to talk to Steve Weiner at Rennsport? He has nothing but great advice to suit every budget. He's helped me and some friends set up our 911s and we're quite pleased with the results.

I would always suggest large torsion bars and small sway bars. The sways whould be used to fine tune the car, not be the main suspension piece.

Don't forget to ask about revalving your shocks to take advantage of the stiffer torsion bars, and ask about having the spindles raised (if you don't already have that on the current car) to further enhance your experience.

Sounds like a fun project.. I hope to see many pictures during the process, and not just of the empty beer can pile that acrue (sp?) at the end of the night

[jpinkert]

I actually did talk to Steve concerning brakes and he asked about my other plans.

He had a different opinion...

1) 23mm front is too big. Use a 22mm instead
2) Sswaybars than what smart racing recommends (23mm instead of 27mm)
3) Upgrade to the aluminum cross member and aluminum banana arms
4) The new Konis yellows that I have are probably fine

...still looking for the definitive answer, although I'll probably go with a 22mm. I'll let smart racing advise me on their sway bars...

[racer]

Originally Posted by jpinkert

I actually did talk to Steve concerning brakes and he asked about my other plans.

He had a different opinion...

1) 23mm front is too big. Use a 22mm instead
2) Sswaybars than what smart racing recommends (23mm instead of 27mm)
3) Upgrade to the aluminum cross member and aluminum banana arms
4) The new Konis yellows that I have are probably fine

...still looking for the definitive answer, although I'll probably go with a 22mm. I'll let smart racing advise me on their sway bars...

Did Steve think the 23mm torsion bar too big for your car because of the overall weight? My car is a bit heavier, with no plans for a diet, at 2650+driver. At times I think I should have gone 22/28 or 23/31 but I split the difference with 23/30. It understeers a bit more than I like, so I usually run the front sway bar (22mm front and rear) at full soft to fine tune it.

Are his recommendations the same even with the 3.6? A friend of mine had his 77"S" really hooked up with the 22/28 TB and 22mm sways, but after dropping in a 3.6 realized he needed to stiffen up the rear quite a bit (all that extra weight and wieght transfer), and on Steve's recommendation is going with 33mm rear torsion bars.

[Jase007]

Josh:

These suggestions are tough b/c everyone has a subjective ride opinion. I think all we can do is share our experience for the situations we ran / run our cars as they were / are modified.

With that said ...

33mm rear bars are HUGE! But, to suspend the added wight of the 3.6L I guess it might be a good idea. I respect Steve as he has helped a lot of people here and in the Porsche community but I think you need to try / ride in the setup you are looking for. A DE ride with an instructor that has a car setup the way you want yours is a good idea. Unfortunately, you may have to wait until next season for that.

FWIW: I have raced a lightweight LH for years that has 23/30 TBs with a 2.0L and I wouldn't want to take it on the street. The front end POPS up over pebbles in the paddock at the track. Yes the shocks are revalved but the suspended weight is carried by the TBs. Car and driver with full gas is around ~2000-2100 lbs. Your car sounds like it will get stripped to ~2000-2100 plus 200 for driver / gas = 2200-2300, not much more than ours. Being within 100-200 lbs (assuming it is evenly distributed and not just over the rear axles b/c of a 3.6L) I wouldn't run 23/31 if I ever want to drive on the street. IMO I think 22 / 30 for street and track use would be good until I put the 3.6L in then I would bump the back to 31 or 32.

Racer: we run charlie bars for sways and they are big ... but adjustable. Depending on who is driving (me or father), track conditions (wet / dry) we set the front bar differently. He likes it set stiffer than I do. but then again ... he wants the car closer to the edge of unforgiving For us sways, pressures, camber are always getting played with depending on track, conditions, etc...

Jason

[jpinkert]

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

For those that haven't seen it, my car is a track-only car that rides to the track on an open trailer. The interior has already been gutted and I have a full cage installed. Other than that, everything else is nearly stock. So comfort on the street isn't a big deal to me. As is, it weighs 2400 w/ driver and gas.

With street rubber, the car handles well, but on transitions its take more time than I'd like to settle. In general, I want to reduce body motions. When accelerating out of high speed corners, the rear wheels tuck into the fenders way too much. Track rubber will make all this body motion much worse. In the picture below, the CV was rubbing an oil line that was tucked up against the inside of the fender.

http://members.rennlist.com/jpinkert/911800.jpg

The rub is that I don't know what I'm working with now. Since I'm going to poly-bronze bushings, etc, I'll rip everything apart and measure my T-bars. Then I'll make the judgement call betwen 22 and 23 front, and 30 and 31 rear. But I'm pretty sure it'll be some combination of the two.

Smart Racing recommends certain 'numbered' sways and I'll have to call them to get a better understanding of what their numbers mean. This is the bar they recommend based on the use. They also give details about their sway bar rates in lbs per deg of twist. But I'm not sure how that translates either.

911 1972-89 Front Rear
Street............20.....20
Street/Track...23.....23
Track.............31.....27
GT.................27.....27

Has anyone here used Smart Racing sway bars?

[cmartin]

I just checked out the Smart Racing site, lots of good info. There packages arent a bad deal either. I was a little surprised though at how spendy the sway's are.

I wonder if it makes any sense to just do the torsion bars now and then upgrade the sway bars later. Or, would firm bars not work well with stock sways?

[Jazzbass]

Originally Posted by cmartin

I wonder if it makes any sense to just do the torsion bars now and then upgrade the sway bars later. Or, would firm bars not work well with stock sways?

I think it depends on what you want to do. Since I'm new at the whole suspension tuning thing, let me relay some advice from someone who knows what the hell they are talking about (i.e. not me) - Steve Weiner. He told me that for the upgrade I wanted - a nice, sporty mostly street car suspension - to upgrade the torsions to 22/29 hollows (21/28 solids) and leave the sways as-is. His opinion was that the stock sways were OK with my stiffer bars, which weren't as stiff and track bars (23/31 ).

Advice after that was for the track, do both and scrap the crappy stock sways, go to a through body bar in the front and adjustable in the rear. You also have to get the rear sway mount upgraded, because I hear it likes the break - right Tony?

[racer]

Originally Posted by jpinkert

In the picture below, the CV was rubbing an oil line that was tucked up against the inside of the fender.

http://members.rennlist.com/jpinkert/911800.jpg

- Looks pretty severe.. Maybe the passenger ate too much that day? Seriously that is a lot of "compression" Any idea how old the shocks were/are?

Originally Posted by jpinkert

Has anyone here used Smart Racing sway bars?

While I have not used them, I believe Steve Weiner likes them alot. He says he will never install a shitty weltmeister ever again! My buddy will be using them in his upgrade too. I believe them to be a quality product at fair prices, compared to, say, the TRG bars...

[racer]

Originally Posted by cmartin

I wonder if it makes any sense to just do the torsion bars now and then upgrade the sway bars later. Or, would firm bars not work well with stock sways?

The components need to work together. I would recommend crying once and doing both pieces, then to continually cry as the project goes on. Besides, not only would you be replacing the sways, but also the likely worn out rubber bushings, which would likely have a bigger impact than just changing the sways.

A friend of mine, who liked repetative work, couldn't afford all the fancy new parts (sways, TB etc) but could scrape together lots of free time, knowledge and about $100 for bushings, did just that! Replaced only the bushings and loved the car as he learned to drive it in its "stock" configuration. Then once he had the money he repeated all the work with fancy new parts.. And loved the car again!

[Jim Richards]

I think Josh is beyond that point. Time to make that early car even more of a track monster.