[tdatk]

First post for me
WOO HOO
Had a good time at the picnic and got to meet Va Steve as well. I was humbled at the concours event as there were too many really clean rides there. That RSR replica was nice, but, I heard he was just joing to show it.
I don't think I could spend that much time and $ not run the thing...
OK heres the question....I just got back from Ohio camping and we were driving along this back road .... when in the corner of me eye I see a garage door open..... inside is a verrrry dusty 77 911S White with a redish interior. Low miles (45K) but definately neglected. I spoke with the owner, an old guy, and he wants to part with it. He lost the keys last year and just hasn't got around to getting a set made yet. It is in fair to good shape cosmetically , but no clue on mechnicals. He will be calling me this week when he gets the keys made and ready to part with it.
I really am not in the market for a project car, but might be tempted if the price is right. He mentioned he would like to get ~5K for it. Too high for me.....but ya never know.
What is the list of concerns on the model year and 2.7 liter motor? I need to have some negotiating tool when the time comes. Also if anyone else might be tempted.. let me know, as I might pass as well.

Tim

ooops just noticed , wrong forum. Anyone know how to move it?

[Dan M]

Hi Tim,

What car did you have at the picnic? I had the black 1970 911 Targa in the Wash and Shine.

$5k for a 1977 doesn't sound too horrible depending on rust, dents, paint, engine... It will definitely need a decent amount of work and a few bucks to get in running order. I would say that if the car has 45k original miles, and the engine, body, interior is in good shape then it could be a $10k+ car when all cleaned up. if it has 145k miles, needs body work, paint, interior, engine, etc. then it's more like $3k as it sits.
If you like the looks of the car and are looking for a project, it might be worth picking up for $3-4k or so. Either way, you will have to put money into it and will not make money on the project.

-Dan

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by tdatk

I just got back from Ohio camping and we were driving along this back road .... when in the corner of me eye I see a garage door open..... inside is a verrrry dusty 77 911S White with a redish interior. Low miles (45K) but definately neglected. I spoke with the owner, an old guy, and he wants to part with it. He lost the keys last year and just hasn't got around to getting a set made yet. It is in fair to good shape cosmetically , but no clue on mechnicals. He will be calling me this week when he gets the keys made and ready to part with it.
I really am not in the market for a project car, but might be tempted if the price is right. He mentioned he would like to get ~5K for it. Too high for me.....but ya never know.
What is the list of concerns on the model year and 2.7 liter motor?

First the std. disclaimer: I have no first hand experience with these middle year cars, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Now for my $0.02 "opinions."

The 2.7L CIS engines are supposed to have problems with head studs that work themselves loose from the engine case and inadequate engine cooling (5 blade fan vs. the 11 blade used on 74 and earlier and 78 and later engines). If my understanding is correct, many required rebuilds well before 100k miles. You'll also want to upgrade the chain tensioners (plan at least $500 for that). Ressurrecting at car that's been sitting for years may require a fuel system cleanout (e.g., rust in tank, gas gone bad, dry rotted tires and all rubber parts, etc.). And even though '77s are galvanized, there may be rust to attend to. I think the p-car market for middle year cars is the weakest, so a "barn find" that needs work is not likely to be something you should pay much for. I would think that Dan's $3k number is a max. You know you'll be financially upside down on this transaction after restoring it. But if you feel that the expenses are acceptable for the love of tinkering on an old Porsche, then have at it. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

[DonNewton]

It isn't that the "mid-years" head studs worked themselves loose, it's the thermal reactors that were required for emission control that caused a heat imbalance (too much heat underneath the engine, much less above) that caused the head studs to pull (uneven expansion rates, difering metals used in the case and head studs). Most often, 60K was/is about all you can do before you get to tear it completely down, insert some sort of case saver (huge debate just now about time-certs, etc), replace all the head studs, ensure the crank is in good shape, do a head/valve job, well, you get the idea.
Now, if the car is a '77, the good news is that the factory began a body panel rust prevention program that helps retard iron oxide. The car will be lighter than later model years, but not as light as pre-74s. These cars can be wonderful, it just takes 'Porsche" dollars to make it happen. Good luck!

[Jim Richards]

Yeah, what Don said.

[Marc A]

Take a look at what a '77 can do with the right mods . . . .

Have to be careful lots of possible issues with that year. If the car is local I wouldn't mind taking a peak with you.

A phone call would be much more efficient than an e-mail on the issues to look for. PM me if you would like to talk.

Welcome to the board.

[Jase007]

PM me as well if you have Qs.

The 2.7L "issues" were addressed on my '76 by the previous owner. Just turned over 164K miles and still going strong. AND, "zinc-coating" started on '76 year cars ... I have no rust on mine (that I can see ).

Don is right on the heat and varying expansion issues (magnesium case, aluminum heads, various alloy studs). You have to look and see which emission control system this car has (thermal reactors or air injection pumps).

Here is a great site for Middle year 911s.

He suggests that all US bound '76 and '77 2.7s had the thermal reactors. Some might also have air injection.

Jase

[tdatk]

Thanks for the insight....
The car as it is right now has no rust in the body panels or anywhere else that I can tell, I really don't feel like a major engine overhaul right now and the thermal reactor deal is downright scarry. I haven't heard back from the owner yet so he is probly feeling me out a bit as well. I will give him a call this weekend and start the ball rolling on negotiating price. He is in Ohio ~ 300 miles from Winchester(my home) so I will have to whittle him down from long distance and IF he is still motivated I will post again with the number. Bottom line is I really don't need another car right now , but for the right price.....I can't help but go for it and slowly bring it back. If I bail I will also post his number for all that may be interested as well.

Thanks for your help.
Oh I forgot ,I had the 82 SC at the picnic.
Learned from my first concours try that I need to do more serious cleaning if I plan on placing at all.

Tim

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by tdatk

I really don't feel like a major engine overhaul right now and the thermal reactor deal is downright scarry.

Tim, it may be a little premature to worry about this. Just investigate the history of this car, what maintenance has been done, and if it looks like a worthwhile purchase, get a good prepurchase inspection. Any potential issues should be priced into what you're willing to pay. Talk to Marc A. about his 77S and what's he's done to make it a real beast. Good stuff.

[OldTee]

This is a little like not marrying a girl because her mother is fat. Sure there is a chance for the new wife to put on a few pounds but it does not guarantee she will be fat. It seems to me at 47K miles this is a nit.