[GT3]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

I understand the whole "well THEY allow it" side of things, but if they allowed you to jump off a 10 story building...

Then I would tell you to jump too.

[}{arlequin]

fun and games aside, my favorite part is seeing the brake lights on in that shot. i'm sure all those around you are thankful as well.

you're an experienced spinner. or is that spinnee...?

[GT3]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

Sure, but where do you draw the line? Are the guys at pit out supposed to be able to determine if it's a 3 oz camera versus a heavier datalogger vs a ??? And how well the suction cup is adhered?

Draw the line? Well, this is all unsafe driving around a track with other cars at high speeds. This is really dangerous stuff.

Seriously, treat us like adults. We seem to manage in the real world without someone holding our hands and hovering over us. We know our cars and we know what will work for us in our cars. And we are responsible adults.

Yes, the newbies need more supervision and strict rules. Red group has been around tracks long enough to be responsible and make adult decisions.

Tech cannot be the answer. Too much too check, too many cars.

Responsible, experienced, adult driver decision making is the answer. Ease up on the nanny stuff for the RED run group.

FWIW - every other PCA DE I have attended, the RED group has its own meeting - whether instructor or not - that is separate from the other big drivers meeting.

And finally while I am on a roll, instructors self-tech but there are those in RED group with way more track experience than some of the instructors... if you made it to the RED run group already...? just sayin'

Flame away.

[ausgeflippt951]

VG I'm glad you picked that picture up. I was the dude in the cowboy hat sitting next to you when you discovered that awesome picture. Thumbs up.

As an aside, my concern for the whole suction cup debate would be something falling into the pedal tray area and inhibiting/distracting driving. One of the 24 Hrs of Lemons races I did was with an MR2 that we had been grilling on the sunroof of before the race. Well, sure enough about ten laps in I discovered an uncooked coal hanging out in the pedal tray. Fortunately was able to come into the pits and get rid of it.

Needless to say, I was pissed. As if car-b-queing the Lemons car wasn't bad enough...

[Trak Ratt]

No Flaming needed... we couldn't write better leads than this

Originally Posted by GT3

... And finally while I am on a roll, instructors self-tech but there are those in RED group with way more track experience than some of the instructors... if you made it to the RED run group already...? just sayin'

Flame away.

Instructors are peer teched (as said many times in those meetings)
Saw some great vids lately of some who claime to have way more experience

[BlackTalon]

Originally Posted by GT3

Draw the line? Well, this is all unsafe driving around a track with other cars at high speeds. This is really dangerous stuff.

Seriously, treat us like adults. We seem to manage in the real world without someone holding our hands and hovering over us. We know our cars and we know what will work for us in our cars. And we are responsible adults.

Yes, the newbies need more supervision and strict rules. Red group has been around tracks long enough to be responsible and make adult decisions.

Tech cannot be the answer. Too much too check, too many cars.

Responsible, experienced, adult driver decision making is the answer. Ease up on the nanny stuff for the RED run group.

FWIW - every other PCA DE I have attended, the RED group has its own meeting - whether instructor or not - that is separate from the other big drivers meeting.

And finally while I am on a roll, instructors self-tech but there are those in RED group with way more track experience than some of the instructors... if you made it to the RED run group already...? just sayin'

Flame away.

I'm actually more of a messenger on this. The club has had a policy, and we are tasked with enforcing it. I volunteered to help run Tech, and by doing so assumed responsibility for making sure drivers comply with the requirements.

But with that said, being in Red Group really does not mean that you are some sort of a God. Has your car never broken? Have you never done anything that resulted in it breaking? And besides it being a safety concern, it fuchs up everyone else in the run group when a car breaks on the track. And sometimes those same people bitch when there are only three run groups a day instead of four, as they loose too much time when a car breaks or there is a big off

I will say this about PCAP's Red Group -- it does largely police itself. There is a tolerance there for behavior/ actions that would get a driver in a lot more trouble in lower run groups. But that is largely because the other drivers are experienced enough to react well in those brief emergency situations.

Sorry you feel like this is a personal attack on you, because for it is not. In fact, the issue came up in the Green Group. But your recent videos had a few people asking offline about the safety considerations. Don't worry though, I told them as a highly-skilled Red Group driver you will never run off the track, spin, etc.

[GT3]

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

I'm actually more of a messenger on this. The club has had a policy, and we are tasked with enforcing it. I volunteered to help run Tech, and by doing so assumed responsibility for making sure drivers comply with the requirements.

But with that said, being in Red Group really does not mean that you are some sort of a God. Has your car never broken? Have you never done anything that resulted in it breaking? And besides it being a safety concern, it fuchs up everyone else in the run group when a car breaks on the track. And sometimes those same people bitch when there are only three run groups a day instead of four, as they loose too much time when a car breaks or there is a big off

I will say this about PCAP's Red Group -- it does largely police itself. There is a tolerance there for behavior/ actions that would get a driver in a lot more trouble in lower run groups. But that is largely because the other drivers are experienced enough to react well in those brief emergency situations.

Sorry you feel like this is a personal attack on you, because for it is not. In fact, the issue came up in the Green Group. But your recent videos had a few people asking offline about the safety considerations. Don't worry though, I told them as a highly-skilled Red Group driver you will never run off the track, spin, etc.

I am not taking any of this personally. I am talking about the policies of suction cups, decision making, tech rules, tech inspection, being responsible adults and the GODS of RED run group (lol). I am suggesting that the limited resources (time and energy of tech peeps required for the supervision/inspection) be concentrated (and thorough) on the beginners where it is needed most.

[BlackTalon]

For the most part we spend very little time/ resources on Black and Red Group drivers, as the vast majority are eligible for peer tech.

But I really don't think you can have safety-related requirements that phase out as you move to higher run groups. The speeds are even higher, and the margin for error is smaller.

[VaSteve]

One thing I think our tech group should do is to check wheel torque. Some of the n00bs get confused between ft-lbs and Nm.

[}{arlequin]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

One thing I think our tech group should do is to check wheel torque. Some of the n00bs get confused between ft-lbs and Nm.

zzzzing!!