[spiffyjiff]

sigh, i had started typing a whole rant but since many of you chimed in with much of the same info, i'll just add a few things.

Originally Posted by Handlebar

Waitlisted.

I had emails on back-to-back days for two events, back-to-back weekends. I registered months ago, made plans, cancelled others, and was ready to go.

Why does MotorsportReg allow me to be "Registered" then pulls the rug out from under me two months later, and the registrar tells me I am 5+ deep on the wait-list with a 50/50 chance of making it to the event.

Is this "yes, but I meant no... Oops... my bad..." from MotorsportReg, from the clubs who run the event, or is this just a matter of "it is what it is, you get screwed in DE registration and it is the way it is..."

Admittedly, I'm not happy with how the registration process didn't meet my expectations/commitment, but I'm trying to proactively find a way to improve my odds of something like this not recurring.

What do I need to do differently?

Thanks for the informative replies.

Wellllll, i wouldnt say "months" ago. according to what MSR shows me, more like just little over a month - 41 days, on May 29. i'm the reg, see my sig?

haha seriously tho, sorry again man. the raw numbers are that you signed up after 44 other novice folks did, and over half of those signed up before the end of March. so far we've only accepted as many students as we have instructors. we are VERY short of instructors at this point (37 accepted...track load is 52 total, green + blue). in the coming days, we will start accepting more based on the handful of instructors who have said they will take 2 students and (hopefully!) more that will be signing up. the first pass is always to play it safe. my advice? sign up in Feb when the events open up. our instructed groups usu fill early and quick.

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

'registered' does not equal 'accepted'.

Acceptances are not finalized until close to the event. And they cannot accept students unless they have enough instructors already signed up. And many instructors tend to not sign up until pretty close to the event...

Pretty sure there is something written about this is any correspondence you get from the registration site when you sign up for an event.

yep and is exactly why we include the line, "This registration does not constitute official acceptance until we contact you prior to the event to confirm acceptance" in the email received after registration is completed as well as we allude to this in several other places during registration.

Originally Posted by N0tt0N

Ken, normally mine show up as 'New' until the club does their first lock in, usually a few weeks beforehand, then you move to 'Confirmed' or 'Waitlisted'. Some clubs do rolling confirmations. Most also are instructor limited so as instructors sign up later they can add students. Also. Cancellations happen. I think you're doing all the right things - hang in there!

Btw, it is not MSR, to be clear. They just facilitate.

yeah, never blame MSR, we're the dicks. MANY years experience has shown that the best practice is to wait until 4-6wks out before admin'ing an event. before that, there is way too much of a moving target which only creates more work of accepting/keeping track of the numbers. e.g. all the cancellations before then; the "student(s)" who sign up 3 months in advance but 2 months later have been promo'd to a higher group, etc.

Originally Posted by joep

When in doubt, or sometimes just for peace of mind, it never hurts to reach out and ask.

absolutely, we try to respond w/in 24hrs.

Originally Posted by BlackTalon

It's not truly 'first come first served'. They tried that initially, and many regular PCAP members were shut out of the first event or two. I believe the process is now manual to make club members a priority. Lots of other factors, too.

sorta. the manual/club member first thing was tried too (before our time) but situations would arise when, for example, an out of region driver (or non-porsche guy) who had done tons of events with us would be shut out simply in favor of a PCAP who only does 1 every few years, etc. not really fair. so in general, we find that first come first served irrespective of marque or club/region works best BUT of course, volunteers and instructors get well-deserved priority. and of course, we occasionally do have cases where we move folks up/off a wait list due to special circumstances but that involves input from folks up the leadership chain.

Originally Posted by BikePump

Stephen
The issue is that most instructors sign up closer to the events than the student drivers do. This prohibits the organizers from confirming the student registrations until they know exactly how many can be supported. The last thing you would want to do is confirm someone and then tell them they dont have a slot - as painful as the other approach is it really is the most controllable and fair.

The other factor is that all instructors are not equal. Some are best paired with Green drivers- others with more experienced so it does take a human to look at the roster and make the pairings based on more in-depth data than MSR can handle.

exactly all this. it's much more prudent to wait list than to tell someone later that they can't go afterall and is why the admin'ing of the event doesnt start til 4-6wks out. it takes a SHITLOAD of time and effort on all parts - reg, CI's, safety chair, track chair, DE chair, etc to put an event on so the last thing we all need is more unnecessary work, blindly throwing at a moving target.

Originally Posted by HoodPin

Don't forget the importance of key volunteers that support the DE program, even though they may not be instructors. Without a good foundation of volunteers, the event cannot happen.

FWIW, volunteers that step up are recognized, and can make the difference in tie-breaker decisions for the last few remaining spots. I've always encouraged new folks to take advantage of the volunteer opportunities to help keep the program healthy, as well as meeting many of the key players. Its no guarantee, but I know of many instances where a wait-lister opted to come out to the event anyway, planning to help out, only to find themselves being able to take advantage of a last minute cancellation. Of course it helps if you arrive prepared, including a Tech Inspection Form, helmet, appropriate clothing, etc.

Yep. nuff said.

Originally Posted by smdubovsky

Thats pretty shitty way to run things IMO.

whoa dude, "walk a mile in my shoes before you...". hey, want to help out? cmon down. we could ALWAYS use another person helping to answer the shit ton of emails we get a day, the dozens of folks we have to research for EVERY event in order to determine in which run group to place them, as well as the logistical nightmare of keeping the reins on the aforementioned moving target for. every. event. apply within.

Originally Posted by BMAN

I hear this helps a lot.

that is LONG gone. i need to order more!!!

[Jazzbass]

Spiffy out.

[N0tt0N]

LOL! Awesome

[spiffyjiff]

Originally Posted by Jazzbass

Spiffy out.

Attachment 47507

haha too funny!

[BikePump]

I can tell you as well from my experience managing the registrations for the AutoCross program which all of these Chris' comments hold true. Pat will tell you just how much time I spend dealing with emails and then finalizing of the registrations for a much simpler program with no instructor complications.

The registrar gig is a huge effort - and largely unrewarded ...so I will just say THANK YOU Chris/Carole/et. al. for the major effort that you put in for each event - and with great care and competence.

[GravityAlwaysWins]

I'm the other PCAP DE co-reg. I want to add 4 things. I'm NOT saying OP did this, just that in general, these are our big issues:

1) For heaven's sake please read the emails from us. Like the MSR auto-generated post-reg email several folks in this thread have referenced that tell you we don't do acceptances until 4-6 weeks out.

2) Being rude, indignant, or impatient to a bunch of volunteers never helped anyone. So please back off the ledge if you're about to take your frustration out on volunteers who spend 10-20 hours a week helping run these events. Registrars hate waitlists more than you do. I promise.

3) If you think you were ~the 50th person to sign up and you signed up 2 months ago, you probably were >100th and signed up 1 month ago. I don't understand why, but we get this fairly often. Registrars have exact reg dates and times so don't _tell_ us how early you registered and how few people you saw then. I guarantee you we're being fair and following FIFO except for the aforementioned instructors and major PCA volunteers.

4) For the love of all things holy, NO REFUNDS WITHIN 14 DAYS OF EVENT does not mean "unless you lost your clutch at the last event." We all take the risk of mechanicals by virtue of this sport. Or my favorite, "I had forgotten to ask my wife if we were free that weekend and now suddenly 10 days before the event she tells me we aren't." Ummm.... your lack of marital communication is your responsibility to fix, not ours.

And seriously, THANK YOU SO MUCH to the people who simply stick a "thanks for all you do" or similar statement in their emails to us. That goes such a long way toward good will.

[HoodPin]

Damn Carol......so much eloquence and only 13 posts on the Dorki board??? You need to pick up the pace.



But seriously, Carol and Chris are on the mark 100%! These events are not paid gigs, and only happen because volunteers love the sport so much, they sacrifice hours & hours simply to see the smiles of joy on participants faces. Share the love and everyone's happier! Grumpy likely won't get you very far. Plus, a smile improves your face value.

[ausgeflippt951]

This might be helpful to put together a little sticky FAQ doc at the top of the Track page.

I can't really blame the new folks for not yet knowing the finer points of the DE process -- each region has its own nuances that make its registration process unique, and for folks who have never done anything like this it can be quite the new experience. Heck, despite moving here from the New England Region, and before that, AZ Region, I did struggle with understanding the correct process those first couple/few events I did here.



And I have been phenomenally impressed with our registrars. They really are on the ball 100% of the time. Hell, I'm pretty sure they've responded to all of my emails in less than an hour turnaround, or thereabouts. For all our sakes, please keep it up.

[BlackTalon]

Can't say not knowing about it/ not reading the info that is there means you should jump on a forum and rant. Dorkiphus unfortunately has been used as a podium for people bitching about various PCAP operations too much for my liking. It's so fuching easy to just email the registrars; the same effort used to type up a rant could be more constructively used to craft a query to the Registrars.

[RV4Flyer]

I'm also waitlisted for SP next month and after counting how many were confirmed I was confused. I am hoping to get a slot since I purposely asked RTR to let me do my checkout for White with Potomac at this event instead of the opportunity I had a week ago with them at NJMP. After a nice email back and forth from the registars I understand why. Sounds like we need to get more instructors and encourage those we have to register earlier.

Having spent many years of service with a volunteer organization I have nothing but admiration for those who step up and do volunteer work out a desire to get involved and help. Thanks to all of you that do this, including the instructors. They probably have it the worst getting into a car with someone they don't know and wondering if they'll make it to the beerfest after the last session (especially if you had me as your driver )