[HoodPin]

I believe that some DE/Track Programs even specifically prohibit the use of timing equipment, to further allay the illusion of competition.

[slbates]

It seems that we have less and less opportunity to modify our cars as a part of self expression as well. Soon you may need the equivalent of a STC to change the color of you floor mats.

I was turned away from two inspection stations last year. One refused to let me pull into the bay since my car was illegally lowered. The other said to take it someplace else due to “illegal aftermarket” seatbelts. I found it strange since my ride height is factory as are the factory yellow seatbelts.

My 76 Renegade came with factory roll bars and very little padding. I wonder if they refuse to insure older Jeeps as well...

[Dandelion]

Originally Posted by slbates

It seems that we have less and less opportunity to modify our cars as a part of self expression as well. Soon you may need the equivalent of a STC to change the color of you floor mats.

I was turned away from two inspection stations last year. One refused to let me pull into the bay since my car was illegally lowered. The other said to take it someplace else due to “illegal aftermarket” seatbelts. I found it strange since my ride height is factory as are the factory yellow seatbelts.

My 76 Renegade came with factory roll bars and very little padding. I wonder if they refuse to insure older Jeeps as well...

That's weird of them. I've never had any place blink twice at my cars (w/ obviously modified powertrains, aftermarket rollbars, low ride height (factory or aftermarket), colorful 3-point belts, and/or 6-point harnesses). The place I usually go is a local Sunoco station, nothing special or otherwise catering to a racey DE-type crowd.

ed

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by slbates

It seems that we have less and less opportunity to modify our cars as a part of self expression as well. Soon you may need the equivalent of a STC to change the color of you floor mats.

I was turned away from two inspection stations last year. One refused to let me pull into the bay since my car was illegally lowered. The other said to take it someplace else due to “illegal aftermarket” seatbelts. I found it strange since my ride height is factory as are the factory yellow seatbelts.

My 76 Renegade came with factory roll bars and very little padding. I wonder if they refuse to insure older Jeeps as well...

Must be another aircraft guy around here, "Supplemental Type Certificate".

Scary as it sounds you are right.

[Eric S]

Originally Posted by joep

well I'm glad an autox wouldn't be considered under this clause.

Although the scale of potential claims is much smaller, its still an at risk event now isn't it?

Autocross is a timed, competitive event. As such, autocross has long been excluded from coverage, even when DE wasn't.

The insurance companies are increasingly tightening restrictions and exclusion terminology to lower their exposure of cars modified with track equipment (faster, more confident, etc. = more risk in their eyes) or while driven on a racetrack.

[RV4Flyer]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Must be another aircraft guy around here, "Supplemental Type Certificate".

This is why I fly an EAB. No worries on STC's or SB's or anything else our helpful FAA decides to make me spend money on.

We already know the insurance company will exclude any claims from a DE incident but having a safer car on the street is a problem for them? Does it specifically exclude coverage in the contract for having the roll bar or worded to include that? If not send a complaint letter to the insurance commissioner in your state or perhaps it is time to find another insurance company. I had a billing issue with USAA here in MD and the insurance commision was all over them in a heartbeat. It rather surprised me but the situation was quickly resolved.

[Chopper Dropper]

Trouble is who defines "safer" the original car manufacturer, the cage/roll bar maker/installer, street hype? A roll bar on a street car with a 3 point belt can be way more dangerous to the occupants.
Dirk

[joep]

Originally Posted by Chopper Dropper

Trouble is who defines "safer" the original car manufacturer, the cage/roll bar maker/installer, street hype? A roll bar on a street car with a 3 point belt can be way more dangerous to the occupants.
Dirk

I realize this is a rabbit hole question, but could you expand on this a little more more please?

With my BK roll bar on my boxster I too have a dog in this discussion.

And for me its about 90% street driving only. The chances of crushing my skull in the event of a roll over is 100% without it. With it the chances drop to 100% plus 3 in" before I die.

For purposes of this argument let's assume the aftermarket safety device IS effective as designed, and IS installed properly.

What's the negative side of this for them?

[Jazzbass]

Originally Posted by joep

What's the negative side of this for them?

We say all the time that roll bars, like other pieces track oriented safety equipment, are part of a system. Rollbars are designed to be used with racing seats, harnesses and a driver in a helmet. If you're in an on-track incident with these things, you're strapped tightly to your seat and in what movement is left your head is protected by the helmet.

On the street with 3 pt belts and no helmet, in an accident there is a LOT more movement in the cabin. The rollbar then becomes something to bash your unprotected head against.

[John Clay]

If you roll over on the street and the BK extension keeps your head from being the first contact point with the ground, that's probably good. If you are in a non-rollover crash and your head hits an unpadded BK extension, that's probably bad.