[Vicegrip]

Originally Posted by cmartin

TD, is that you?

Originally Posted by Irfan

TrackDaze

That is funny!


I tell my students that on the whole about one car a weekend exits on a flatbed. From what I have seen you are more likely to die off track than on track during a DE weekend.

that said you should be prudent and "Prepare for Impact".

[BobNovas]

The DE FAQ speaks to the issue too - https://pcapotomac.org/index.php?opt...d=19&Itemid=39.

And, TD was a guy, not an event. A particularly philosophical one.

[BlackTalon]

Originally Posted by Irfan

I heard about that incident too, and that the incident ended his hobby. It's always in the back of my mind when I'm at T10, and I've heard of other incidents there too (other flips, going down the main straight backwards). I bet he didn't have a roll bar, and what if the roof had caved?

A few things here:

1) I heard he was coming back, and with a dedicated track car (i.e., it did not end his hobby, but the need for funds may have postponed it a bit). This is actually common -- often those who have a big incident early on come back as very dedicated drivers with new/ repaired cars that have a lot more safety gear.

2) The roof designs on porsche coupes seem to be pretty stout. I have seen a few with dents after rolls, but never seen one 'caved in'. and I got to see quite a few that rolled while volunteering at some PCAP Club Races a few years back. It's all in the 'arch' -- as you know it's great for carrying compression loads!

3) At SP Main, I've heard of -- and seen -- 'major' incidents at T1, T2, T3, T4, T5, T6, T7, T8, T9 and T10. And on a couple of the straights. The most devastating seem to be at T4, due to speed and walls/ barriers on both sides. T9 can be bad when people loop to the inside and roll over. Not an issue if they drive off on the left; it usually happens when people are worried about driving off and fight to get back to the right.

[VaSteve]

I have seen cars wrecked in the paddock.

[SilverStreak]

Originally Posted by Irfan

What kind of doc are you?

Make an appointment, you'll find out the hard way

No data to back this up but consider this as a safety comparison:

In a DE everyone is paying much more attention to what is going on around them. There are also flaggers and instructors to assist with that awareness. You'll be driving anywhere from 45 to 120 mph but no one will be too close to your rear bumper or driving beside you. Strict rules and adherence thereto is ensured by the event directors.

On 495 at any time of the day you'll be wheel to wheel with thousands of morons paying zero attention and tailgating, chopping, weaving texting and much much more. All of this at 65-85 mph.

I'd rather be on the track.

[antonioconceicao]

No rool bar on 2010 and 2011 local pca cayman incidents. Chris ( 2011 incident) is converting the car to a race car.

Originally Posted by Irfan

I heard about that incident too, and that the incident ended his hobby. It's always in the back of my mind when I'm at T10, and I've heard of other incidents there too (other flips, going down the main straight backwards). I bet he didn't have a roll bar, and what if the roof had caved?

[rs911t]

The lesson to take away from the Cayman on its roof incident is to drive within your limits. The risk is entirely subjective - you are in control and making the decisions. The point of "drivers education" is to help you get better at both. The objective dangers are pretty much the same as street driving: other drivers and road hazards (changing conditions, debris, spilled fluids, animals, etc).

PCAP does compile statistics (or at least they used to). Peter Kaufman (not Dr K) was doing it for awhile. Maybe Dan is keeping these number now?

All in all the biggest expense is increased wear on the car and incidental damage (e.g. rocks - ask me how I know). Can your car get crunched? Sure. For reasons entirely out of your control? I think it's rare. Can you get hurt? Yes, but very rare in the 10 years I've been doing this.

It's life. Shit happens. Be smart and have fun.

[Mark in Baltimore]

Originally Posted by Irfan

- The likelihood of getting killed at a DE is close to zero. But it has happened, so no one should entirely disregard the possibility.

Manny or someone else needs to jump in here, but, IIRC, the last time a driver died at a PCA DE, he had a heart attack and was not killed through an impact. Even if I missed that one incident where someone perished because of a crash, the incident rate over the past ten years for PCA is incredibly low.

Originally Posted by Irfan

I bet he didn't have a roll bar, and what if the roof had caved?

You're assuming quite a bit here. You're assuming that no roll bar was used, and you're assuming that Porsche does not make a very robust car. David D. has already addressed this, but I, too, have been amazed at the number of stock 911's, 951's, etc. that I have seen roll over while the passenger compartment remained intact.

[}{arlequin]

Originally Posted by LPM911

where's the guy eating popcorn emoticon when you need it ???

[}{arlequin]

Originally Posted by Vicegrip

I tell my students that on the whole about one car a weekend exits on a flatbed. From what I have seen you are more likely to die off track than on track during a DE weekend.

if you averaged out a few seasons I'd even go as far as one car/day gets sacrificed to the pitout gods.

still acceptable odds