[Cliff Claven]

From a conversation with my wife yesterday:

Me: "I'm thinking of putting a roll cage in the SC, but it means losing the back seat and possibly tearing up the interior some."

Wendy: "Sounds like what you need is a real track car."

Me: "Huh???"

Wendy: "You know, it's like you always say, when you try to have one thing serve two different purposes, it doesn't do either quite right. Keep the SC to drive, and get a different car for the track."

Me: "You're the best."

But funding constraints dictate implementation of Plan B: Roll Cage in SC. I'd appreciate advice on the bolt-in roll cages--How well do they really work, what's available and what works best? I'm considering bolt-in for their removability. But in terms of safety, how good are they? And how "removable" are they?

[jpnovak]

I have an OG cage in my ST. it installs easily. I don't think you will be removing it much after its in. The steering wheel and seats must come out to remove it. Not to mention about 40 bolts holding it together.

If I had to do it over, I would send the tub out for a custom fitted cage. I think Kurt mentioned starting to do this. Maybe you could be his first customer in his "spare" time.

[Vicegrip]

Spare time .... Thanks I needed a good laugh today.

After messing around and force fitting some other brands, Safety Devices is the only bolt in / weld in bar I would look at if I was installing an off the shelf bar. You can get a version that can be converted to a cage in the future as well. I installed an OG bar in the 912 years ago and had to rebuild it to get it to fit right. This might have been due to installing it an early car but it was sold as fitting 69 to 89. The OG and Safety Devices bar that I like is the one that has the weld on plates NOT the bolt to the seatbelt bolt point type. The weld on plates for both are installed in a great spot and make for a strong bar installation. The added plate can be covered by carpet if the bar is removed. The O.G and S.D. cages I have dealt with fit right in.

From what I have seen most people that buy “bolt in” bars think that they will remove them when not at the track but after seeing the labor to do so just leave them in all the time.

[Cliff Claven]

Safety Devices sells a bolt-in roll cage that can be specified without the diagonal, which their website states, "allows use of the back seat." Is that realistic? Is it just the diagonal that would prevent back seat use in a 911? I'd prefer not to lose the back seats altogether.

[Trak Ratt]

IMO cages in a due purpose car make little sense. But would certainly be one way to move quickly to a dedicated track car 8)
Try sitting, riding, driving a Porsche with a full cage wearing a stock 3 point belt. You will find that once you’ve overcome getting in, your head will constantly come in contact with the side bars. Your SO will probably only ride in it once
The upgradeable roll bar makes a lot more sense. Besides what do you really put in the back seat anyway? On a trip to Michigan some years ago I “set off” my fire extinguisher trying to get a small bag past the high back and the roll bar
Nasty cleanup

[}{arlequin]

You probably won't want anyone in the back after that... maybe on a quick run for a slurpee around the corner, but realistically, even w/o the diagonal, the back seat will still be a dangerous place due to the other bars.

Sooner or later it will turn into a pure, driver's, fun-car and not a take-people-with-me car... unless it's just the passenger.

[Vicegrip]

Hitting the bar while sitting in the back would be ugly. Even with the cross bar out there is a lot of metal right around head level to bang your face on

Forgot to add that the SD and OG bar have plates that weld in and then the base of the main hoop bolt to the added plate. This way after the welding is done you can still unbolt and remove the bar. The S.D. and O.G. cage side bars are removable so you can get in and out easly when they are not installed. Even with the door bars removed the cage bars are still there for you to hit your head on so a cage in a street driven (Read as no helmet on) car would be less safe than no cage for 99.99% of street impacts.

(Caution Opinion!) Dual use, install a bar if you must. Track, go with the cage. On the fence? O.G. or S.D. bar that you can later add the cage part if you want. All of the above forget the back seat.

Bruce Dobbs has an O.G. bar with the added cage in his SC. He will have his car a the Taj tonight if you want to see an installed unit.

[racer]

As many have said and you should have picked up on, once a cage/bar is installed, you will only use the rear area for storage of track items, like tools, overnight bag etc. People won't want to climb back there and god forbid you panic stop the car they will know exactly where the bar/cage is when their head hits it.

Bolt in is a nice way of selling the parts, but I have yet to meet anyone who actually removes them between events or during the "off" season. I second Kurt's comments about "bar" for street/track use and "cage" for track only use, especially if you would need to drive the car on the street. Once in a while it can be fun to clib through the cage to drive the car, but in a suit and tie, forget it. The roll bar still allows easy entrance and exit.

[Mackpipes]

If you do go with the SD bar/cage, Tweeks has the absolute lowest price on these units. The bar alone is $330, and the full cage is $699. The "bar" is equipped tabs so it will accept the front bars to make it a cage later on.

[Cliff Claven]

Bruce Dobbs has a S.D. bar with the added cage in his SC. He will have his car a the Taj tonight if you want to see an installed unit.

I would like to see that. What time tonite? Oh, and I'll need directions. I'm coming from Arlington/Georgetown. PM me.