[Landjet]

This past weekend I mostly drove without an instructor in the car, but when I did have someone else in the car it felt more stable and settled, so the extra weight had something to do with it. I would like to have this stability without the extra weight.

Any helpful suggestion and ideas?

I would also like to understand how stiffer springs are beneficial for the track? Why do trackers increase their spring rates? I'm so used to thinking of springs in terms of a comfortable ride, I don't see the why or benefit to the spring rate increase. I know on the street they are more jarring so how does that translate to benefit at the track?

[rs911t]

so the extra weight had something to do with it.

Could it be that without the instructor present you were driving more aggressively, driving a different line or simply listening to the car rather than the instructor?

[VaSteve]

A lot of us when graduating to white tend to increase the spring rate on the passenger side to compensate for the lack of instructor. Most instructors are 200-250 lbs, so that's a good starting point while you dial it in.

[Landjet]

Steve, so you have stiffer springs on the right side of your vehicle? I doubt it. Sounds like a Dorki booby trap to me, one you'd have a good laugh about if I fell for it.

Thanks for the helpful tip.

[Landjet]

Originally Posted by rs911t

Could it be that without the instructor present you were driving more aggressively, driving a different line or simply listening to the car rather than the instructor?

I know my car is faster without the second person but the car undulates more without the extra weight. I even mentioned it to one instructor while he was in the car.

[HoodPin]

Stiffer springs, as well as sway bars, help keep the car from rolling side to side as much, which means there's less weight transfer while cornering. The center of gravity doesn't move as much, plus it helps keep more weight on the inside tires in a corner, enabling them to participate more in the quest for traction.

My guess is with a passenger in the car, the ballast is helping the car stay lower and possibly even leaning less in the corners. Stiffer springs will do the same thing, but you need to also address ride height at the same time; stiffer and taller may work in some activities , but not necessarily car handling. The ultimate objective would be to keep the CofG as low as possible, while minimizing side to side weight transfer, while still keeping all 4 tires in contact with the pavement. Yeah...you do see the occasional vehicle that corners on 3 wheels, but if done right, its counteract other deficiencies in the handling design while achieving a better blend of traction and handling.

IMHO, the best compromise for street & track is stiffer sway bars to help control the side to side leaning, while still enabling the springs to provides some bounce and compliance when driving on the street. FWIW, softer springs are also a benefit in the wet, because it helps keep the tires planted to the street surface over bumps and such. Of course, if you were drive the track in the wet sometime, you would better understand.

Regarding Steve's recommendation to stiffen springs on one side, that's simply his way of slowing down the competition. Corner balancing the car, with you in the driver's seat, would provide a more pleasant outcome. .....unless you possibly have NASCAR ambitions.

[rs911t]

http://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Your-Car-Handle/dp/0912656468

[HoodPin]

Originally Posted by rs911t

Amazon.com: How to Make Your Car Handle (0075478000012): Fred Puhn: Books

X2! My copy is about 25 years old. Some of the pictures and technology may be a bit outdated, but everything in it still applies!

I wonder if current printings have changed/added anything....

[rs911t]

Great thing about physics ... it never becomes outdated

[Lupin..the..3rd]

Originally Posted by Landjet

I know my car is faster without the second person but the car undulates more without the extra weight. I even mentioned it to one instructor while he was in the car.

You can correct that with an asymmetrical sway bar. You want a bar that is ~3mm thicker on the passenger side, to compensate for the lack of passenger. It'll give you that firm planted feeling of having someone in the right seat, but without all the added weight. Of course you need to be in a non-instructed run group, White or higher, to take advantage of this.