[Eric S]

Besides the obvious performance attributes, another benefit of a Cup car is the fact that you never title it (in fact, as I understand it there is no title) and therefore get out of paying VA personal property tax of about $5k/year. What if you buy a street car designated exclusively for the track and don't re-title it (i.e., have it signed by the seller and place it in a safe deposit box)? The biggest risk would seem to be that the previous owner could request a replacement copy of th the title and try to say they didn't sell the car; but having the original title and Bill of Sale would seem to trump any such attempt. I do realize that a copy of the title and the bill of sale would be required when traveling to tracks in Canada, but are there any other issues?

If anyone has other legal/effective ways to reduce the stinking pers. prop. tax, please send a PM, thank you!

[N Fotouhi]

Do you have the option to let the registration expire and turn the plates in? I would think that if you are not on the books, no tax bill is sent.

Eric, are you saying that the $5K/yr personal property tax is for a car?

[Trak Ratt]

Many including me have done this for years with parts cars. Just make sure you have a very good bill of sale AND keep the title handy.
Works best with out of state cars since VA DMV wants to know about sales in state for that reason.
Since the seller is expected to fill out the owners card with the buyers info and send it in, you could always put an out of state address on it. Not sending the card in often doesn't work as the VA DMV is relucktant to remove car from PO's info without new owners info. Realistically most people quickly forget who they sold the car to and lose any paperwork but you could buy something from someone like you

Might also check the DMVr web site about "parts cars."

[Cliff Claven]

Originally Posted by N Fotouhi

Do you have the option to let the registration expire and turn the plates in? I would think that if you are not on the books, no tax bill is sent.

you have to give notice that you've sold the vehicle or have moved it out of the jurisdiction. vehicle can be titled in your name even though not registered for street driving.

[HoodPin]

AFAIK, in the local jurisdictions, the only way to establish proper title ownership is to pay the tax. Of course VA is different from MD and DC in that VA hits you up every year, instead of just the year of purchase.

I believe that if you have a Bill of Sale (notarized would be better), that should eliminate any ownership problems. However, if you ever intend to sell the car, if the purchaser intends to title it, in local jurisdictions (particularly MD) you cannot simply transfer the title signed over to you. Most vehicle titles have signature blocks for puchaser and seller. Once they've been filled in for a particular sale, a subsequent buyer cannot present it to the DMV to apply for a title. The only parties that I know that can accept that title would be intermidiary wholesalers, who can legally own vehicles without titling them. IIRC, many titles have a box for a wholesaler to fill out, but they must be licensed/registered legally in some manner.

As long as you don't plan to sell, not re-titling can work. However, if you intend to sell to someone, who might want to get it titled, then you could have a problem.

[APKhaos]

Originally Posted by Cliff Claven

you have to give notice that you've sold the vehicle or have moved it out of the jurisdiction. vehicle can be titled in your name even though not registered for street driving.

Then the question becomes, "Does the VA personal property tax for a vehicle attach to the simple possession of the car, or to the fact that the car is registered to drive on VA roads?"

Its a very interesting question, and the right answer may be good news for many guys with dedicated track applicances that are not road registered.

[Eric S]

Originally Posted by AJ986S

However, if you ever intend to sell the car, if the purchaser intends to title it, in local jurisdictions (particularly MD) you cannot simply transfer the title signed over to you. Most vehicle titles have signature blocks for puchaser and seller. Once they've been filled in for a particular sale, a subsequent buyer cannot present it to the DMV to apply for a title. The only parties that I know that can accept that title would be intermidiary wholesalers, who can legally own vehicles without titling them. IIRC, many titles have a box for a wholesaler to fill out, but they must be licensed/registered legally in some manner.

As long as you don't plan to sell, not re-titling can work. However, if you intend to sell to someone, who might want to get it titled, then you could have a problem.

Might be naiive, but I was assuming that if I planned ot sell it I would title it one day and sell it the next. Of course, that might set off red flags at DMV...

A friend lives in Loudoun county and has a boat that he stores on the bay in MD so he gets out of the tax that way. Unfortunately, I think Fairfax County may be worse than other counties in that you have to pay the Fairfax county tax regardless of where it is stored.

[Trak Ratt]

Originally Posted by APKhaos

Then the question becomes, "Does the VA personal property tax for a vehicle attach to the simple possession of the car...

yes, it has little to do with droving, but is all about paying! Having tags adds to the bottom line.

[Eric S]

Originally Posted by APKhaos

Then the question becomes, "Does the VA personal property tax for a vehicle attach to the simple possession of the car, or to the fact that the car is registered to drive on VA roads?"

Its a very interesting question, and the right answer may be good news for many guys with dedicated track applicances that are not road registered.

Good question; I'm assuming that from a VA tax perspective the answer would be that if you own it, you pay tax on it. The Cup Car situation appears to create a loophole - since you don't title it, they never know you have it, therefore you pay no tax; if they knew you had it, they would tax you for it.

[Cliff Claven]

i always thought the tax attaches based on ownership and where the car is predominantly garaged. so if you live in fairfax and garage your car in another VA county, you should not have to pay personal property tax to fairfax, but to the other county. when you title a vehicle in VA, you are asked the question, where will it be garaged. recommend studying the VA code to have all questions answered.