[William Miller]

Greg let me trial fit his bar into may car. It didn't work and I found what the differences are between a Cab and a Coupe. The front legs of Greg's bar rest on the floor just in front of the rear seat. The rear legs want to go on the wheel well. In a cab this doesn't work because the verticle piece of the body on top of the wheel well covers most of the wheel well. My guess is that this is one attempt to make the cab body stiffer since it does not have a hard top.

Since this won't work I'm planning to build my own.
I made a template yesterday for the main hoop. Partially using the top section of greg's bar and the concept used by VU's bar (resting the front feet on the ledge next to the seatbelt bolt and bolting it on where the seat belt goes. The rear feet bolt to the hinge point for the rear seatbacks.
VU is going to send me some pictures of the mounting points so I can use it as a bench mark.

I have some questions before I proceed.
I downloaded the PCA race rules.
Appendix A has the roll bar specifications.
It appears that my car needs 1.75" x .120" bar for mild steel.
I plan to use this since I can weld it myself. It looks like that this means 1.75" outside diameter (That's what Greg's bar is.) and .120 wall thickness.

Can some one confirm this?
Are the mounting points OK based on VU's bar design? (Using the existing bolt locations?) Is this just OK for driver's ed but not for a club race?

Is there a problem if the cross brace is bolted in so it can be removed when not on the track. Any other details on harness attachment will be helpful as well.
I want to do this right the first time!

[Jim Richards]

Are you planning on just doing DE or is Club Racing in your future?

[William Miller]

DE for now, but want to meet the requirements for club races in the stock class just in case. Is there a difference in requirements for the bars?
I'd like to do this just once unless the differences are substantial.


Second, I anticipated getting the tubing from our normal steel supplier.
They only stock structural sizes and not tube this size. Any suggestions where to get it would help.

[Jim Richards]

I don't believe that there are any requirements for bars in DE, so you have more lattitude. Most would recommend mounting more securely to the car than just bolting / welding to the floor. It sounds like you want to follow the Club Racing rules.

[markwemple]

Keep the jig around as I believe that targa bars are the same or very similar to cabs and I would love to build one for DE so that I don't loose my head in some boneheaded maneouver while wearing my 5 point.

[Vicegrip]

I recommend that if you plan to build your own roll bar that you inspect and copy an existing bar made for a Cab. There is a lot that goes into bar design as far as fitment and attachment points. Factory made bars are not real expensive and some are a good value when you add in the cost of materials and time spent building your own. (Yes, this is Kurt the frugal fabricator typing)

The tubing is available at aircraft builder shops. This or the CrMoly tubing is the ONLY stuff that is good to use. Gas pipe or structural pipe is not DOM, is of unknown alloy and is not good weight to strength. Bill Jay (73-914) has contact info for a seller that will ship DOM and has goods prices. Do not build anything that is not to PCA club race rules if you plan to drive DE. They are the standard that sets the requirements for cabs in DE as well. Non cabs in DE, you can stick whatever you want in as long as it is bolted down tight but Cabs need real rollbars for DE or CR.

[cmartin]

If I recall correctly, VIR has 'special' cab rollbar requirements too, although I would assume PCA rules would cover that.

[Chopper Dropper]

You would be nuts to go Club Racing in a cab. Way heavier in your class than coupes, same applies to Targas though there are a few racing out there.By the time you try and stiffen everything up, tying into suspension etc, you are way over stock weight plus now bumped to GT where you will be spanked. As Kurt says for DE, just by ready made,proven design and save a bunch of time and at the end of the day probably money. Targas have their own built in roll bars that seem O.K.. Ask Sandy Van Leen who rolled his Targa down the Chute at S.P. with relatively little damage if any to structure.
Dirk

[William Miller]

I bought my tubing and I'm still not talked out of doing this myself.
I still need help understanding the rules and ideas for attachment. I am very intrested in benchmarking off existing designs that have been approved in the past.

I's a long shot that this car will ever be entered in a club race, but I interpret the rules to say that with my cab, I must meet the club race specifications. It appears the only attachment method accepted is to have metal to metal connection thru bolted with grade 5 bolts and a 3/16 backer plate. They suggest the floor, although the floor pan seems pretty weak. In the cab there isn't much horizontal surface on the wheel well to support the foot of the rear bars.

The DAS bar (Isn't that what VU has) bolts to the rear seat hinge point and the seat belt bolt on the sides behind the seat. I can see the seat belt point being good because with the correctly shaped foot it will spread the force to the rocker and the floor. Maybe this is true for the rear seat hinge point where the foot would spread th force to the hump and the bolt just works to keep the foot in place. Although this may be true it doesn't seem like an "approved attachment method".

I will continue to do some research. Any help would be appreciated! I ask the group to help by giving me the names of any bar that has been approved for use in a cab. What's the approval process anyway?

BTW the tube cost about $35. I learned that I have a freind in the scrap metal business. He brought me some steel and aluminum plate as well as some angle pieces to use for the feet. Cost: Zip.... Nada!


Tub and other sheet metal went to the paint shop yesterday afternoon. The owner anticipates 2 weeks if everything goes as he anticipates. I sorta half believe him.

In the mean time I'm going to consentrate on getting the supension parts, engine and other stuff ready to go back on the car.
I feel like I'm finally turning the corner!

[87turbolook911]

William,

Sorry I have sent you pics yet...been pretty crazy at work....I'll try to send you some this weekend.

Vu