[William Miller]

I didn't want to take Jase's thread regarding settings Off Topic so...

I've seen a few different tools and/or methods for doing this at home, but it seems they all start with "With the car on a level surface"...

I built my garage about 5-6 years ago and the floor was/is pretty flat (a flat plane, but it is sloped on purpose for drainage) So it's not exactly level. I haven't looked at it closely lately, but it probably slopes 2-1/2" in 30'

I've seen a few setups where people have used Plywood, and VCT and maybe greased steel plates. Along with corner scales too.

How do you do the t-bar height measurements while the there are shims under the wheels?

So how level does it need to be? Does a little bit throw off corner weights that much?

[Jase007]

Thanks Bill

A 2" X 12" X 10' under the front wheels and another under the rear wheels [running side to side] and shimmed level to each other.

Meaning, front board level left to right and rear board level left to right AND front board and rear board level on both L and R side when compared to each other.

The 2X12 allow the front wheels and the plum line from the front TB center cap to reach the same base level surface [the board]. It works for both the front and the rear TB centers.

I like Mike Piera (sp) tech DIY article over on PP BBS for measuring rear toe [tape measurement from fixed point on Rear TB cover to something like the brake caliper hub [wheels off, car in the air]. Measure and some math and you'll get your settings. Adjust, do the thumb tack in the wheel trick re-adjust as necessary.

There are also straight edge metal pieces with angle finders attached for camber [homemade not the SRP one] ... assuming your car is level side to side. Have to have wheels that allow for the peice to sit flush to edge of rims.

And ...thumb tacks in the wheels with plumb lines down to ground ... mark with an "X" as roll car forward and develop a series of Xs you can connect with a line. Some measurments and some math and you have toe.

[smdubovsky]

Bill, we use VCT and a water level for corner balancing. We can often achieve better that 20# variation (on cars w/ coilovers). Lets just assume your running 250#/in wheel rates on each corner. That takes a floor thats better than 20/250=0.08"=1/16". Thats pretty tough...

SMD

[William Miller]

Jase, thanks for the ideas and links.

Steve, my imagination is running on overdrive to figure out how your doing it with a water level. It's a great idea bacause it's so simple and repeatable.

It could be used initially to setup the level base for the car to sit, but could also be used to set the initial height per the specs. (get one end level with the center of the axle and then on the other end add or subtract ___mm to the center of the torsion tube.) Clamp the tube to a stick or ruler with the mesurement and the other end to the axle and adjust until it's just right without removing the gizmo. Maybe some magnets to hold it in place?

I looked on a few sites with alignment equiptment and saw they make alignment stands. Typically with 4 screw in ajustable leveling feet like on the bottom of office furniture.

I was also thinking about some ways to eliminate the potential error created by the tires and also make up for my irregular floor. I was thinking of welding a screw jack on the top of a jack stand. I would make a piece on top of the screw jack (like a pin) to insert into the hole in the bottom of the bananna arm. Weld a flat plate on the bottom of the jack stand and a second flat plate on the floor or corner scales with grease between the plates. This would allow the suspension to settle and the jack stand could slide where it wants as ajustments are made.

Something simular for the front. Maybe machine a big piece of angle to bolt onto the hub in place of the wheel. This piece could also have extensions welded on going forward and back to measure toe.

This would be a relativly quick setup especially with the lift.
I know it's single purpose for p-car's but that's the only one I tinker with.


Thoughts?

[Vicegrip]

I made 4 platforms out of plywood and some 2X4. Each is large enough to roll back and forth to unload the susp and each has 4 threaded hight ajustment feet. Fly the car up on the lift, place them under the car where the wheels will land and level them with a high end 6 foot level, then set the car on them. The feet have nylon sliders that let the pads move and this unloads the susp too. Once you level the 4 pads up once they go back into the same place on you shop floor each time and are level the next time. I build them to hold the 4 strain guages for the digital scales so you can roll onto and off of the pads as well. This, a home made camber guage that uses a Smart guage ($80), a $7 360 protractor from Sears and a $300 Smart String rig is 100% of what you need to do a full line up and corner balance. Remove the $1000 to $1500 scales from the formula and you can still do all but weights. Smart strings, a Smart guage and protractor from Sears will set you back under $400. Add in $50 worth of wood and bolts for the feet and you are hooked up for little more than the cost of a full line up at one of our fine local independant shops which charge on the order of $300. The second time you line up you are in the black and can check and or diddle the #s anytime you want to.

Bill you are welcome to stop by sometime and see how the setup works if you like.

[smdubovsky]

Bill,
There are alignment "plates" you can bolt on instead of your wheels. Looks like the open wheel crowd uses them alot. They are tall rectangular plates w/ a hub and lug holes drilled at one end. Long enough to simulate the hieght of the wheel. 4 identical ones remove the wheel effects. Looks like using them would be a SNAP to align a car - clamp straight edges to them and simply measure...

FWIW, We use ramps to get the car on/off the scales. Jacking it up seems to goof w/ the corner balance #s more. I haven't done a 911 in a while, but I remember the bilstein struts give the car an offroad stance until you go drive it - no amount of bouncing up/down will cause them to settle. Kurt, when you use the lift do you have this prob? Or do you have something other than bilstein? The ramps/platforms are nice since they raise the car 3"+ and you can reach under to adjust things like toe vs jacking up.

Those ramps w/ built in levelers do look VERY convenient. Would rase the car even more to get under and work. Just too much $ for me right now.

The water level is nothing but a clear hose. Clamp/tape/tie each end vertically to a jackstand, put on two different pads, and measure from the pad to the water line. Shim until both measurements are the same. Move one end and repeat until all three pads match the first. We mark on the floor the # of shims.

[William Miller]

Here is some info I found on making a simple water level:
Kurt, let me know the next time you have a car on your setup.
I'd really like to see it in action. Are the screw in feet much heavier than the furniture type?

Steve, I thought a little more about the alignment "plate" idea and I have a few extra rotors. The fronts won't work because they bolt to the hub, but the rears might make a good beginning of the alignment plate. Using your description, I could maybe mount them inside out and weld an angle on the bottom which would work like a foot. I was also thinking about welding on the top of a small bottle jack (They are pretty cheap and they also already have a flat bottom.)

This setup would give it some height and also allow leveling on the spot.
I might need some sort of a hinge to alow for camber changes!
Without the wheels and tires there would be a ton of room to make the adjustments.
I could weld whatever to the outside of the rotor to hold an angle gauge, string setup or arms to measure toe.

What do you guys think about supporting the rear end using the holes in the bananna arms? They look like they are there for one purpose or another.

[Vicegrip]

don't have Bilsteins here. I let the car sit for some time and roll back and forth prior to corner tweeks. I tend to do any tweek work then drop the car on the pads, roll the wheels off the scales and go in for the night. Do the corner work the next day. It would not be hard at all to make ramps and bridges. Add another $50 for plywood and 2X4s. I have a lift and did not want to store the extra parts. Besides this would make my scales portable and lendable. Nether is good for me....

[Vicegrip]

A little tiny bit of dish soap in ther water cuts the surface tension and reduces the meniscus and grip the water has on the tube with a water level.

[jerome951]

Hey Bill, I bought this liquid level and it works well.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/2702...l?itemNo=level

For $25 may not be worth the hassle of fabbing something. Reserviors are graduated for easy comparison. Comes w/ purple dye or you can add food coloring to suit your taste.