[CanAm]

I got an email from TrackDaze announcing their 2013 program and am impressed that they'll be doing some relatively innovative things: https://www.trackdaze.com/index.php/...-education-ade. Time will tell whether enough people will enroll to make the various options viable, but I for one am certainly interested. PCA, BMW club, etc. may want to consider trying some similar things.

[Potomac-Greg]

In contrast, what I'm seeing out of SCCA for 2013 is a consistent scaling back of activities due to a decline in participation and the resulting financial impact. "National" competition is being scaled back to "Majors" in order to reduce conflict with regional events. Even competition license schools are being scaled back.

It's not apples-to-apples (TrackDaze is a local, DE, for-profit business and SCCA is a national nonprofit running DEs, races, rallies, autocross and related rewards programs). But it is worth watching these groups deal with a changing customer base. I wonder what NASA is doing.

[CanAm]

Originally Posted by Potomac-Greg

In contrast, what I'm seeing out of SCCA for 2013 is a consistent scaling back of activities due to a decline in participation and the resulting financial impact. "National" competition is being scaled back to "Majors" in order to reduce conflict with regional events. Even competition license schools are being scaled back.

It's not apples-to-apples (TrackDaze is a local, DE, for-profit business and SCCA is a national nonprofit running DEs, races, rallies, autocross and related rewards programs). But it is worth watching these groups deal with a changing customer base. I wonder what NASA is doing.

There's definitely a competitive marketplace as far as options to get on track, and the options are fairly diverse. Each person's priorities are different, but social aspects, amount of track time per day, cost, variety (or homogeniety) of cars, daily schedules (eg, start/finish times), quality of instructors, quality and amount of classrooms, tech requirements, level of freedom on track (particularly passing rules), etc. are all factors. Personally, I'm always trying to stretch myself and learn, so these new TrackDaze options appeal, plus 2 hours of track time per day is relatively good.

[GT3]

Originally Posted by Irfan

PCA, BMW club, etc. may want to consider trying some similar things.

Good luck with that. Big organizations are hard to change. Open passing? Timing of laps? That's not going to happen with the big national clubs.

Since Trackdaze is "for-profit", they have to be customer focused, agile and quick to respond to changing market conditions in order to survive. The nice thing about a small "for-profit" business is the ability to make changes and get things done - no top-down red-tape issues. What Trackdaze is proposing is similar to other "for-profit" HPDE businesses like MVP and Chin. MVP and Chin sell out most, if not all, of their events for this very reason -- flexibility to adapt to changing customer needs/desires, finding solutions and listening to customers. The motivation is there - do or die.

[BlackTalon]

Insurance has a big thing to do with lap timing, etc. I think PCA National purchases the insurance that all the Regions use, and I suspect they do the best they can keep keep the cost as low as possible for the entire membership -- including those who never venture to the track (which means more limitations on DE then some other organizations may have).

It's great that there are so many options to choose from, versus all merging into providing exactly the same thing.

[Vicegrip]

The big bloated unchanging group I drive and instruct with has pass anywhere with a point and no one has ever told me not to time my laps.

Funny how sometimes someone new to a sport stumbles onto something that is new to them and thinks it is new to everyone.

[GT3]

Originally Posted by Vicegrip

The big bloated unchanging group I drive and instruct with has pass anywhere with a point and no one has ever told me not to time my laps.

Funny how sometimes someone new to a sport stumbles onto something that is new to them and thinks it is new to everyone.

Having run with more than 10 different PCA regions from FL to Canada, quite a few regions enforce what they said were "national rules, because of insurance" regarding no lap timers in cars and no timing of laps. Most recently at MoSport with PCA-NNJ in July and PCA-NE at WGI in August. Neither of these groups would allow passing in corners either. So maybe they were wrong about the national PCA rules - that is what I was going by.

And, yes, running with PCA-P I have gotten a few point-bys in the turns before. Not often, but it has happened and it was greatly appreciated.

My interpretation may be wrong as well, but I thought "open passing" meant pointing was not required or expected. The only two times I have seen/heard of this on the east coast is PBOC and DMTD.

[Trak Ratt]

^ Not wrong, just conservative. IIRC “passing anywhere” is an option, not a dictate. Still don’t understand why if you hate PCA so much you still run with them

[Robert in Potomac]

Originally Posted by GT3

My interpretation may be wrong as well, but I thought "open passing" meant pointing was not required or expected. The only two times I have seen/heard of this on the east coast is PBOC and DMTD.

Not sure who PBOC is, but TrackDaze permits open passing without point byes in Red, instructor group. I was actually somewhat concerned with this, but in reality, I only witnessed one pass without pointing - and that was me passing on the inside of T1, but because of not being certain outside car saw me, we sort of went through side by side.

One of the reasons I don't drive in FATT is because of my experience with certain drivers passing without point byes - difficult to drive safely if you don't know the rules.

[BlackTalon]

No problem with timing in car that I know of, but the Club cannot time the cars...