[BlackTalon]

I know some of you Dorkis instruct for the BMW Club (John Brown?). Do they charge Instructors for DEs, or are their costs covered by the Students' fees (a la NASA)?

[CrewChief]

Ah, there might be one or two around who instruct for BMW; but likely very few. They do not recognize anyones credentials. Which is OK in principle. But I am told it can take a long time to complete the evaluation just becuase ... meanwhile, one would be paying the rediculous hgh price for the DE. And since they can't field many instructors the prices stay high, so ... , ... ,

To answer your question. I'm not sure but think that yes, instructors pay zero and the rest foot the bill. The way they like it I guess.

Just as an aside. For something like NASA where instructing with a full load (2 students) I think free is fine. And appropriate. FATT is fair for what it is. For PCA, assuming a single student as in Potomac; then I should pay something.

[BlackTalon]

Thanks!

[BobNovas]

One of the things I heard was that you had to be able to turn two laps on the skid pad, in both directions, hanging the tail out (as in oversteering or drifting) the entire time. I decided to try this last year at the HPDC. In three attempts, I wound up tail end first off the outside of the skidpad in the exact same spot. This was on a wet skid pad. For the life of me I could not feel the slide enough to control it. It's tougher than I thought, but fun to try.

John Brown has a story I heard one time about one of the BSR instructors who did this from the right hand seat (yup, driving from the passenger's seat). And if I recall the story right, the instructor did it in both directions - without turning the car around. In other words, two laps in forwards, and two laps in reverse. And there's another story about the same guy turning 1:35's on the main circuit from the passenger's side. Maybe he'll comment.

[Charlie Stylianos]

One of the things I heard was that you had to be able to turn two laps on the skid pad, in both directions, hanging the tail out (as in oversteering or drifting) the entire time

I saw the owner of Car Guys (Arian) do this in an S2000 during the skid pad exercise....full 'lap' of the skid pad hanging the rear out. Said the trick was to use 3rd gear and lightly feather the throttle (a nicely balanced car I'm sure helps). Then he tried with a student's 911 and could not get the car sorted once the rear end started coming around. I'm sure those Bimmers have an 'easter-egg' drifing program, just have to find it (1st, 2nd, reverse, 2 rights clicks of the paddle shift, gas, break, clutch, then turn on the AC, and do all this with the seat warmers on) and you'll be drifing in no time.

[CrewChief]

Arian is quite good. As are the BMW guys, the BSR guys and of course the fellow in the story Bob mentions is one of the best. Actually it wasn't forwards and backwards, but both directions (more different than you might think) and yes of course from the right seat. Don Barrick, now running Beaver Run.

He also claimed, and I believe him, that he was about 2 seconds slower in a Caprice from the right seat as opposed to the left.

If I could driver forward from the correct seat as well as he drives backward from the right seat I would be a happy man.

[BobNovas]

and could not get the car sorted once the rear end started coming around

Exactly. Once she broke free, that's all she wrote. I tried nailing the throttle and full opposite lock, but I couldn't hook back up. Really a lesson in what happens once you break a 911 rear end loose in the wet.