[William Miller]

I came across some sway bars that I couldn't resist.
They matched my stock bars but were thicker.
The guiy said they were from an 86 turbo.
I bought them both with some other stuff for about $100
Most of the bushings are there and I think I am missing one.

Here are old and new diameters:
Front: old 20 new 22 mm
Rear: old 18 new 20

Upon close inspection all my rubber bushings (front arms, spring plates and bananna arms look like they are in great shape.)

I have ordered Sport bilstiens for the front and Koni's for the rear.
Turbo tie rods
At this point I'm not changing torsion bars.

Since I need the sway bar bushing I finally had the chance to measure them this morning. I checked on PP and the fronts are $4 each. no big deal. There rear rubber bushings are $15+ each.
Anybody have a clue why their so expensive? I was going to buy all 8 until I saw that price. Now I'm going to have to double check which one I actually need.

I'm almost positive the new bars are going to fit. The mounting points all seem the same. The only difference I can see is that the rear bar is notched or bent to go arround the transmission (I herd the turbo transmissions are bigger.)

Anybody have a clue how this is going to ride?

[Jase007]

Bill:

Anybody have a clue how this is going to ride?

Stiffer dampers NOT matched to stiffer TBs is going to seem rougher (seems counterintuitive) than if you had "matched" springs / TBs and dampers. At first, they will seem like an upgrade if yours are worn out but they are "over-dampening" (compression and rebound) the stock TBs.

PARICULARLY bc/ you are NOT increasing the stiffness of the TBs. Your car will roll further / farther than it should (the dampers control the rate of the conpression / rebound) and the larger sways will be overworked trying to do the job of the TBs (b/c they are undersized for the application). Eventually, they'll break from the mounts.

If you are going to 22F and 20R sway bar then IMHO you'll need to reinforce your rear sway bar mounts. 1mm exponentionally increasses the torsional rigidity of the bar. If these are adjustable then you won't have a problem.

In my experience:

1. match the dampers to the TBs for the application desired.
2. fine tune your roll axis' / weight transfer (f to r and r to f) with sway bars.

I have seen / experienced this in both Porsches and BMWs.

Jase

[William Miller]

Thanks Jase.
I believe this is why Anderson recommends to do the T bars first.
I would have if I found a set. I beleve he recommends using 22mm front and 28mm rear.
My stock T bars are supposed to be 19 front 14.1 rear. Is that right?

That seems like a huge difference.

Do you have a picture of a reinforced rear mount?
I have to do some welding anyway.

I was also thinking about welding on some jack pads at the corners of the frame.

I kept my old bars so I can do this in stages.
Thanks!
I suspect used upgrade T bars are hard to come by or possibly shot?
Jase what do you think?

[CrewChief]

I agree. On the other hand:

A very very good driver and instructor I know, recently of Summit Point fame, and who is intending this year to take national honors in SCCA (some class) ... drives a car that has been setup contrary to popular wisdom. And apparently it works. Or, this fella can just drive it no matter. Which is possible. The FATT guys know.

Soft spring rates. Anti-sway that would hold the Queen Mary upright. Granted, this is front wheel drive. I don't know if that really makes a difference.

[Trak Ratt]

In ’86 the Carrera sway bar size was enlarged to 22 mm front & 21 mm rear. “84-’85 Carreras had 22/20s. This was the second increase since the originals SCs 20 F 18 R. Rear T bars increase from 24 mm to 25 mm also. IMO the 22/21 are about right for a otherwise stock SC, but the 22/20 would be sweet too. A switch to the stock 26 mm Turbo T bars would also make sense & they are cheep if you look hard enough. I have hollow 22/28 T bars on our SC but will swap out the stocks for some 22/21 sways as soon as Linda leaves her '87 Carrera unattended for a few days

Source “Porsche 911 Red Book”

[William Miller]

I was looking up some of this on pelican.
An 86 911 has 19 / 25 T bars and 22 / 21 sway.
If I installed these sway's I would be the same with a little lighter T bar in the rear 24.1 vs 25.

Please clarify some mystery.
At Hershey two guys had some lager T bars from a turbo. They were both toasted. They began to argue if they would fit my car. One said the turbo bars were shorter and wouldn't fit my car. This went on for several minutes with no concensus. I finally walked away and I think they continued the argument.

What's the deal? longer, shorter, the same?

[Trak Ratt]

Everyone rounds up but the actual size on otherwise stock 911 except Turbos from 1974 to 1986 was 18.5/24. Turbos had 26mm rears, same 18.5 fronts. Pre ‘74s had 23+ Rear. Turbo Torsion & sway bars will fit all from 74’ to G-50 equipped 87’s. Turbos have slightly different pickup points on the torsion tube for the control arms but same bar length. G-50 equipped cars have slightly shorter T bars in back because the G-50 is wider. Just happen to have a set of big rear T bars for G-50 cars if anyone is interested

IMO Torsion bars will not wear out. What kills them is rust pitting. Usually in front but can be in back too. Caused by bushing failure, metal to metal contact, then rusting. It takes very little surface rust to cause a pin point hole that compromises the integrity of the bar. Stock bars are usually black, 26mm bars are red (as are 356 bars) & most aftermarket bars are white. I also have a nice collection of stock “black” T bars if anyone needs a replacement.

[estrellajon]

Dave really knows his stuff. I think you have all the model specs memorized.

[Rick Lee]

If anyone's interested, I have a set of stock G50 rear t-bars too. Good shape and free.

[William Miller]

How to make the G50 bars longer?
How much longer are they?
I'm wondering if the splines on the inside of the tube (inboard splines not the ones on the spring plate) are longer than necessary. David are the splines the same? Maybe wishfull thinking. But I've seen odd things work before.
David I might take you up on one of the stock front bars.
I recall some rust on the left front, but haven't had a chance to inspect closley. The bushings looked to be in real good shape. Does anyone have a spare rubber bushing for the front sway bars? 22mm I am just short 1.