Interesting point...
 

Just read Todd's post on Rennlist and something struck a chord with me. At some point while watching my track videos Dave mentioned that I should try "smoother" inputs while driving. I was very thankful for the suggestion and over the next few days tried my best only to find out that the car does not respond as well as I would have hoped, or Dave would have wished...
Since I rarely see or talk to other 996 drivers (with the exception of NNJR, their region is pretty blinged out...) Todd's post on the rennlist board made things a bit more clear...
Link and quote below...

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...=236188&page=4

Perhaps someone else who's driven a 996 can chime in...

Good Topic Eli.

Let me clarify my point a little. What I mean by aggressive inputs is really mostly throttle inputs (e.g., lifting to deal with understeer) and, to a lesser extent, braking (e.g., if I am trying to induce TTO). I try to be just as smooth with respect to steering, shifting and clutch work.

Remember, the 944 has none of the gizmos the 996 has. What you're trying to make the 996 do on the track is probably categorized by the computer as "holy crap !"

Call it denial (I do), but that's why I'd much rather have my 944 than some brand new, shiny, powerful 996 or 997, with working air conditioning, no rust, a nice stereo, heated seats ....

maybe not always, although I seem to think so at this time, but to drive a car at.the.very.limit seems like you inevitably will cross that limit too. sometimes on purpose, sometimes not, but you will intend to destabilize the car, if for no other reason then to "help it" turn in. a 996 w/ 20+ years of susp. development is going to be a lot more difficul to destabilize. the modern susp. is supposed to help you keep the car gathered up, not have it out of shape. you're fightin' vs. german injineers man!!

I can learn to live with those modern annoyances like AC, nice stereo, heated seats, PSM... :shock:

I think smooth is a matter of timing and input rate rather than amount of the input. You can turn the wheel 90 deg in 1/16th of a second or in 1/2 a second. Same amount of input but one will feel smoother and will also give the car time to react as well. Some cars need to be horsed around and some will dance lightly along with you. Squeeze the brake until threshold or stab it down. Stomp the gas or feed it in as you open up the wheel.

I always feel for the timing of the car. I think each car has its own cadence and you need to work the controls at the pace required by the car. Think of a hula dancer all her movements are a the same pace. It can be a fast set pace but if you add control inputs at a rate that the car cannot respond to you will only upset the car.

Kurt, I hear you and I certainly don't have as much experience as you, but I think it is a little of both timing and amount. I need to let you drive the 996 so that you will see what I'm talking about. (my God, what am I saying :mrgreen: ). I think Kurt just tricked me.

I'm confused, even more than usual.
Quote:
on the 996, I have the impression that the car is "glued" to the track and I have to use much more "aggressive" inputs if I am trying to get one of the ends to move. The 944 feels much more "willing" to move in response to weight shifts I induce through inputs. If I even think about using the type of input I need for the 996 on the 944, I will do a nice little piroutte . . .
2nd Quote:
Let me clarify my point a little. What I mean by aggressive inputs is really mostly throttle inputs (e.g., lifting to deal with understeer) and, to a lesser extent, braking (e.g., if I am trying to induce TTO). I try to be just as smooth with respect to steering, shifting and clutch work.

At first I thought these inputs were using the steering wheel which is usually defined as "tossing" the car into a turn as the inputs are done much to quickly. Then I find out it's throttle inputs.
Thank god for Kurt bringing a little clarification into the thread.

I don't get your point at all Don. Really. I am talking about the smoothness and degree of lift you need to use to address understeer, and the "abruptness" of braking inputs you need to do to break the rear end loose in a tight turn, as well as the degree of what you need to do in general to transfer weight as needed.

The 944 feels extremely well balanced and very responsive to inputs. You don't need too much of a lift to address understeer in the rare occassions that you experience it, and you don't need to be abrupt at all to get the rear end to swing around nicely while you are trailbraking. The car responds very promptly to subtle driver inputs, and it rewards smoothness and subtleness in all inputs.

The 996 literally feels glued to the track, which, under nearly every circumstance is exactly what you want. However, when I do experience understeer, the degree of lift I need to use to transfer weight to the front and get the car to respond is far greater than in the 944. The same is true with respect to braking and the rear of the car. What is so surprising or stupid about this observation? I believe I am merely describing the design characteristics of the cars. It might also have to do with the fact that the suspension on my car has been lowered and stiffened, but I think it has more to do with the basic design characteristics of both cars. Specifically, I think that the designers of the 996 specifically made it so that drivers must use greater inputs to get the car to respond, because, for most people, this makes the car safer: the stupid inputs of morons are muted so they don't hurt themselves.

With respect to steering, my 944 has manual steering that responds far more quickly to steering inputs than does the 996. I have grown to love the manual steering on the 944, which gives you much more direct feedback as to traction levels at the front of the car, and hate the power steering on the 996, which gives you feedback that is much more subtle. The degree of input that you need to use on the different cars is dramatically different, but it doesn't really change my driving style. You still turn-in using the same technique, although you will be turning the wheel much more with the 966 than with the 944.

Sorry TD, didn't mean to give you a wedgie so early in the morning. :)
I started my reply that I was confused on who was doing what to whom as I didn't understand what your "inputs" were and what you were trying to accomplish.
If you had started your first post on this thread "I am talking about the smoothness and degree of lift you need to use to address understeer, and the "abruptness" of braking inputs you need to do to break the rear end loose in a tight turn, as well as the degree of what you need to do in general to transfer weight as needed" perhaps I would not have been confused.