I agree, capitalism is what makes this country great. If there is anyone on this board who goes to work everyday for free let me know, I would like to hire you. If 17.00 is a big deal then sell them somewhere else, Sheesh!!!

I just remembed that back in the day...most of the internet was on the back bones of Universities and The Government who absorbed the cost. Once business started getting involved it really took off. It's taken some time to get better, though still not perfect. Could you imagine this site if it was hosted by geocities with the 50 million pop ups and constantly running over bandwith quotas?

Very, very well said. Mind if I use this the next time someone whines about paying membership fees, be it on Rennlist or another forum?

Eh, I don't think Spaze is 100% wrong. Maybe 95%. ;) Obviously, Jazz is right that it requires revenue to survive. However, what the owners of dorkiphus has provided is a forum for exchanging ideas. The CONTENT that brings people back is provided by members. It *is* the people that keep an internet forum alive. Choosing a way to bring in revenue was brought up, and we as a group decided we'd rather pay up than become beholden to sponsors, or demand fee-for-access like rennlist. People don't like paying for access to websites - unless that site provides an excellent, amazing, unique service. Or its members feel a strong sense of loyalty to the community. (Or in my case, feel guilty because I post a lot of BS here and can't contribute one iota of Porsche technical info. And I clutter up threads with nonsense about BMWs. :))

People may be the heart, but money is the blood. Read into it anyway you wish. :)

One of the reasons Rennlist requires memberships to post for-sale ads is several for-profit companies started pedaling their wares there without buying sponsorships or memberships. John D. felt it best that those sellers kick in their share for the access to potential customers so he mandated that all people wanting to sell should be members.

Admittedly, the 944 crowd can be pretty harsh about enforcing this rule.

I've had the opportunity to meet The Man (John D., that is). One of the most humble, nicest, and enthusiastic guys you'd ever meet. He has had Rennlist around for about a decade in one name or another and for most of those early years he operated at a loss. I, for one, am happy that he's had success in this business endeavor as I benefit from it greatly as well (far more than my $17 membership). Oh, and he still works a day job to pay his bills (unlike Jazzbass and Charlie). Rennlist is his 'hobby'.

FYI it's their hobby too. :)

If I used RL more ... besides browsing race forums ... I'd become a paying member for sure.

Before i start, i just want to say that I'm going to donate to rennlist as soon as the car is 100% stripped out. I think that paying the $17 will save me time and effort trying to skate around the system they have in place.



Ok, so I'll acknowledge the fact that Web sites cost a money. I'm a computer guru by profession so I know you can run a site the size of this for nearly free (if you want my contact let me know ;)). Rennlist is another matter, I never realized that there were no ad's there. Most of the other sites I'm on have ads to help the cost.


what!? is money the only way to support a forum? you have to be joking right? Every person you tell about a forum, every post you make benefits the forum. Whether you think so or not, even this discussion is bumping the rating up on this forum. Every event i go to and say that this forum freaking rocks (which it does) could make another member come and join! They might even donate, in fact the odds are they will (me being the minority and all)!

Agreed, but the PCA offers tangable benefits (ie track time), vs virtual benefits (ie the ease of sales of parts). The reason i support PCA is I can't buy track time as an individual (sorry I'm not rich ;)), i need a club to pay for the insurance and the flaggers and whatnot. Its not that i can't sell parts from the car, its just the p-car community online makes it easier.

I have one word for you if you think the world of the free internet is over... Google ;) you can do a ton of free stuff over the internet that you at one time had to pay for (phone calls, text messaging, paging, reading books, etc), so while people are no longer making millions of dollars in minutes, the internet is still free and still growing.

True, if you want to run a site like this without ads you do need sponcers. And really I think that is a great idea, but if i were to pay for every site i use, i may as well burn a check for several hundred dollars that I could use to get my car running.

Now, bare with me here, i just want to explain to you all where I'm comming from. The first board i was EVER on was naxja, and is a national XJ club. I never paid for that as members of the board never got a price break for offroading. There was also a board of elected officals and what not. It really was a club that had a website and if you wanted to effect club ploicy you could become a member and get your voice heard. The next forums I started going to were subaru ones. All of which are free, and very free at that. The only thing you can buy is more space for a photo album on one site, the rest offer no benefits to "paying" customers. Nasioc is roughly 3x the size of rennlist, and is free. Nick, the owner knows that they are the BIGGEST national subaru board and uses that clout. Venders pay to become offical venders so they can market their stuff directly to the people. Some even sponcer sub forums (tire rack), all they do is replace the nasioc logo with a tire rack one (in the specific) forum. So yes, its an ad, but its very unobtrusive.

My point is not that $17 is a lot of money, or the fact that i should have to pay to get benefits, its the fact that paying shocked me a little. Yes, i know its not a lot of money, but i was just a little taken back at the rules. Until now, i had never needed to pay for benefits for any online community.... so pardon me if the rant seemed a little off key.

Google/yahoo, etc are not "free". They are subsidized. The free content, search engines, video, etc and what not is paid for by the people that pay for sponsored links, other non-free services, etc. Oh, and that IPO. ;) Are they even profitable?

I don't think that you're going to garner a lot of support here from the folks that have donated. True, the content, provided by the people make the board worthwhile (and worth paying for). But, we still need the money to run the infrastructure. It's similar to the roads, in some ways. You *think* they are free, but you're paying for it in taxes. If you had to pay-as-you-go, you wouldn't. Even a toll road doesn't charge what it would really cost each car mile.

Those of us here who have developed a kinship and friendships through hanging in garages and paddocks and fun runs figured that it's better to pony up some bucks when this site outgrew the original host (that subsidized it). If you like it here, stay and contribute, put put some bucks in the bowl to keep the site running. BUT, don't expect that those that do pay will "see it your way" and figure that somehow the Internet Gods see the world as richer for its existance. Just remember, you're paying for the collective knowledge and the space to hang out with other like minded individuals. If you're not getting a break on track time or parts...well that's not the goal of this board. I suppose when you went to college, you paid for the degree? ;)

Unfortunately, when those people browse the forum and start to post and upload their photos and show off their videos, there is no server fairy to magically add more servers to increase the bandwidth. These people are "supporting" the forum but, really, they are more "users". What other way would you propose to support a forum, other than through monetary means? Volunteer time? Bake sales? Canned food drives?