Don, I've done all of these things you mentioned. I'm using an OG duct kit with backing plates. I think the problem is a deteriorating master cylinder. None of the calipers were leaking. I am switching the stock rubber lines over to DOT braided stainless lines. As far as adjusting my driving style, I have started braking earlier and less. But that just isn't quite as fun now is it? :wink: I liked catching people at the end of the straight and at turn 5 at SP. The unfortunate side effect is a very soft pedal at turn 10. :shock:

1) I do think that perhaps there is something wrong with the brakes if you've been doing so many rebuilds. I have had to have calipers rebuilt only twice in 10 years of DEing. So your rebuild rate seems rather high.

2) One of my "white run group" observances. I'll assume Ted is in white, although it can begin as early as a drivers end of "yellow" (or "blue" depending on region, times and when they get moved to white. It truly is a case of overbraking.

My own experience is that when a driver reaches white, the confidence and speed don't alway match the skills. It is often in white when a driver begins "round two" of upgrades to keep up with the faster cars. I too was a victim of that. I thought my stock 914 brakes were woefully under powered, depsite good fluid, religious bleeding and good pads. I threw money at the problem and converted to 5 bolts and 911 brakes. I newver went to talk to the guys who were still running stock 914 brakes in black or red to get their feedback, but more importantly, to ride with them. To witness their brake points, the speeds they carried in corners etc. I firmly believe I used the 911 brakes on my 914 less than I used the original 914 brakes. I went from changing pads every two events to changing them 1 per season.

What I find is that while straight-away speeds are higher in white, than yellow, and confidence in braking allows later braking, the cornering speeds do not rise equally. Thus the "over braking" comment.

Ex. (and the speeds are arbitrary, but used to show my point) a Yellow driver at SP in a 1985 911 reaches 110mph on the straight. Begins braking just after start finish (ha ha), ok, early, but not that early, and slows to 30mph for turn one.

In the same car, a red driver reaches 118 mph on the front but only brakes to 48 mph... and in each sucessive corner the speeds are higher due to the skill and confidence of the driver. They drift of the car. They now how much more speed can be carried without fear of going off track, or fear that the guy in front will chooch up. They brake quickly and firmly without "riding" the brake.

Thanks for allowing me to ramble.. ;)


So Ted, Big Reds right? :D

Dave you make some very good points. Yes, I overbrake the car. I am a very new White group driver. This was only my 6th DE. I still have alot to learn as far as the limits of the car and driving within them. I am not what you'd call a finess braker. I think the rebuild rate shows that. :roll: I am very much a threshhold braker. This I'm sure is fine for a racecar, but not for a car weighing 2974# with driver. There just isn't enough brake for my current driving style. So, to answer you question, no, I won't be getting Big Reds. But those C-GT ceramics look pretty tasty. :wink:

Some very good points.White group historically goes through brakes,been there done that. you gave a great description. Ted, I think your master cylinder theory (Paul Westons?) wheel theory are right.It takes a genius to make a car go fast so whaddya want to talk about brakes for :lol: , brake a little earlier and not so hard, go through the corner more accurately and faster and your lap times will go down and your brakes will last. Went through similar when i was in white with my 88 targa, saying all that, CGT brakes are nice!!
Dirk

Just make sure you can see 'em through the Lindsey's :D

Funny you should mention Lindsey's. I had a long conversation with Paul Weston (Brake Prof.) at SP this past weekend regarding overheating issues. He told me that the Fuchs wheel is the hottest (temp) running wheel that porsche makes. He has recorded temps of 100' over that of phone dial wheels, which he said was the coolest of the factory wheels. He believes it is related to not getting enough ventilation though the spokes. For this reason I have desided against the Lindsey's and am looking at the Fikse FM-5's or FM-10's. Which of course allows for bigger brakes. :twisted:
I should confess that half the reason to go to bigger brakes is the Dorki urge to modify the car because I CAN, not because I NEED to. 8)

That's only HALF the reason? C'mon, Ted - you can do better than that. I didn't run out of brakes at all this weekend and I still want to upgrade. :twisted:

It's fun to poke the hornets next it's it? :twisted:

Isn't it a mistake to put bigger breaks on the front without a proportional change to the rears?

I run stock m calipers on all 4 corners. The same size pad at all 4 wheels and loose nothing in the breaking zone (white group). I do burn through a set of front racing pads per DE but have no fade and a perfect balance between front and rear threshold. I would love to not have to change pads at the end of every event but am concerned about changing a setup that works extremely well.

Chris
73 911 E

A set of fronts EVERY DE? Do you really go through that many pads? What are you using? Thats a crazy burn rate...