1) Track pads are often WORSE than street pads on the street, because they work better hot. That said, you generally don't need as much stopping power on the street if you drive sensibly

2) Yes, go to 6speedonline

3) OPINION: This thread is frustrating, and I realize the last thread I found as frustrating was started by and primarily posted by the very same person :( If you really search back, you'll see several of us making 2 similar mistakes years ago, myself included. Not listening to all the experience contained on this board, and doing silly, potentially less-than-safest things as a result.

4) I think you should go to the track with street pads, and bring an extra set so you can change them out when they're gone after the first day. Oh, wait, you're the guy who refuses to swap out the street pads for the track pads for the one or maybe two events per year, instead insisting on compromising (see VGs post above) the other 361 days!

5) I bet you'll like 6speedonline a lot!

Sorry, Irfan, but I have a rule to read every post on Dorkiphus*, so I have to speak up!!

*except Polish Engineering

What the good Dr. K said ..

Most track pads squeal and not better than street pads on the street but still have plenty of bite - just drive appropriately for the conditions and all is well. I use to switch pads many years when I started DE but no longer. My DE car is a 87 911 and I use PFC (83 & 97) and Hawk (Blue & HT10) and they work fine on the street. If I were to track my DD (951), I would switch out the pads. It is one of the simpler things to do on a Porsche - less than 1 hr for all corners. I'm willing to help you if you wish. Lots of good recommendations on this thread ;)

1) The PFC08/06 we have in the Cayman are definitely better (more bite) on the street than the stock pads were. As I noted, the cold behavior of track pads depends on the pad.

2) Will ask at 6speedonline.

3) I did take the advice given regarding the pads for the Cayman, and I've taken lots of other advice too. But I've also found that advice given is often conflicting, even when it comes from very experienced people. Whether to use R-compounds at this stage (Blue+) is a perfect example. So it often becomes necessary to probe more deeply before making a decision.

4) I've already experienced the rapid disappearance of stock pads in the Cayman at WG. The 'street pads' I'm considering for 997 now would need to be a big upgrade over those. Call them 'compromise pads' or 'moderate track pads' if you'd like. The Pagid 4-2-1 (classified as a 'race pad') might have been what I'm looking for, but they don't make it for the 997.2.

5) I've found 6speedonline useful in the past.

I don't mind your speaking up. That's why I'm asking for advice. And I was cautioned before joining Dorki that people don't pull any punches here, so you have to have a thick skin. :)

Discussion from pagidracing.com on why not to change out Pads due to mixing of material resulting in sub-optimal braking...

When you install Pagid race pads on top of a layer of an incompatible pad material, bedding might take much longer or in worst case won't work at all. It can also result in sub-optimal brake performance.

Interesting, what happens now when I go into turn one at 135+ during lap two? Right after I switched pads? Sorry, don't always drink the koolaid. Trust but verify.

FWIW, 6speedonline has its own issues. Some members are former Dorki's who either a) didn't know what they were talking about, and/or b) were thin skinned. I dare say that there's a much higher percentage of legitimate track/autox drovers on Dorki than are on 6speed. I've found 6speed to be more oriented around the Drive&Dine lifestyle.

That's been my experience too, and why I started my inquiry here at Dorki. Ironic that some Dorkis are referring me to 6speedonline. :lol:

On the topic of cold vs hot bite/friction with track pads, note in this graph how the RS 4-2-1 and RS 14 have very little variation with temp:

http://www.pagidracing.com/techinfo.html

Since the 4-2-1 isn't available for the 997.2, the Pagid rep recommended the 14 for my application. Though he didn't say so, the friction curve may be a key reason.

CORRECTION: Zooming in on the graph, I noticed it's the RS 5 (Blue) which has the fairly flat friction curve. RS 14 isn't flat, and probably not good for street use. Anyone have experience with the RS 5 Blue?

it might not be irony ;)

Believe whatever you like. Buy whatever you believe to be the correct pads. Run them for a couple events, and then you can make a longer-term decision based on you first-hand experience.

Not sure where the 'drink the kool-aid' came from here, but I can tell you most people giving the advice here have well over 100 track days, and 1) had a time when they were at the same decision-making point you are currently at, and 2) have witnessed hundreds of other drivers be at that same point as well.

The Interwebz iz great. Keep looking long enough, and you will find a group of people who have the same opinion you do. They are the smart ones :roll:

One more graph for Hawk pads:

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113813

Friction when cold really drops off :shock:, so looks like these would be a poor choice for street use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by threedownandlocked (Post 407134) Discussion from pagidracing.com on why not to change out Pads due to mixing of material resulting in sub-optimal braking...

Now there is a data point where I do have some first-hand! Keep in mind what you describe and my moonwalk in T1 were not the same thing. I was not switching from one formulation to another I installed new dead flat pads on old slightly dished rotors. New pads had little contact with the not flat rotors and the rear pads were still hot and grippy from the last run which was almost back to back. I was on point the next lap after coming in for the hand slap at black flag and finished the run within some laps that were inside one second of my best time. (All that aside I was simply too hot for the car condition coming into T1);)

Talking to the wall, read at your own risk. Keep in mind most if not all cold formulation pads are not transfer pads. YMMV but I have found that slapping in and bedding track pads after pulling a set of street formulation pads to take no more than the drive to the track or less. Slap them in the night before, drive to track have at it no muss no fuss. YMMV.
Street pads are formulated to work cold, not make noise when cold, not make harsh dust that eats rims, paint and be kind to rotors. Track pads are formulated to work hot. Some work OK on the street. I use PF-97 in my 912 but it is also a now and then car not a day to day car. I also don't care if it sounds like I am killing hogs from time to time as the open J pipe wins. The rims are ratty track grade with an existing hard rust like layer of dust that sticks to the rims. Almost any pad will work with a 90HP 2150 pound car. The compromise pads I used for a while proved to be the most expensive as they were 2 sets a year and the FP-97 were 3 years per set. Don’t expect this from 3000+ pound 350+HP cars.

"Trust but verfy" is spot on. Trust me the street and track pad swap back and forth advice as been verified by many track experienced people. Slap them in between sessions and try and do a best time second lap? No one is recommending this.